Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 61
06-22-2011, 06:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by D207 View Post
the MVA Escort has a 5 min cool down. How many fighters do you think can be shot down and redeployed in that time. What I'm saying is that the feds dont have that constant redeploment of pets like the 2 klingon ship have
If the MVA Escort gets destroyed early in the fight thats it, you have to wait untill the long cool down is finished untill you can seperate again.
Are scorpion fighters considered pets? Just asking.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 62
06-22-2011, 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Data
My point being people QQing about spam when the majority of fed players are twice as guilty. KDF carriers are the slow brethern of the def sci ships but lack the nimbleness to use a lot of the skills the Intrepid-R, or whatever other fed sci ships use twice as effectively. So in return for turning like a brick stuck in cold molasses they get pets that can be killed by 1 of numerous skills.

Yes fed spam is a hell of a lot easier to clear but I would need to be on spam duty 75% of the time especially against spam fleets.

KDF doesn't use spam because it can't deploy the shear volume feds can because of the only slight advantage KDF has and that is cloak.

You know this and really all you are trying to do is be contrary or justify a few things since many of your former fleeties are flying with a spam fleet.
not at all, my point is that when player QQ's that X side spams, it is largly omitted that spam is available in equal measure to both sides. i am not justifying it one way or another, yes the kdf 'could' put out more spam than any fed fleet is capable of. however whether such a decision is sensible in terms of effective gameplay is a different issue to the capability to produce spam.

more generally

finding an effective way to deal with spam, while not overly diminishing your teams ability to fight is one of the things teams have to learn, just as how to deal with FAW heavy teams, or SS3 heavy teams, or in one case a team that SS3's faw's spams as much as possible mines/fighters etc and has all the captains, ships and of course fleet labled identically while using that photonic toy (whatever it is called ) to make all the ships look identical. They lost as it happened, if all that wasn't enough to win then using spam as it is now, or FAW or SS or all of it together is not enough to win by itself you still need good players.

Seriously it is no wonder pvp is dying, every thread you read has some 'i am a top pvp'er' claiming the sky is falling and pvp is broken, if you have not tried pvp and you happen to glance at the forum and read some of this nonsense you are just as likely to decide nah i don't think i will bother then pvp is totally broken. it is just about wall to wall crying in this subforum
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 63
06-22-2011, 09:45 AM
ALL pet/mine SPAM should be severely MODERATED IMHO.

Fighting among spam is very annoying (for me at least) since:

1) screen is always clustered with tons of targets, and hiding npcs from the UI is NOT a solution since it only works for some classes/ships. Escort players CANNOT affort to make mines/pets UI-invisible.

Plunging in an UI-invisible chroniton minefield with a cloaked escort => EPIC FAIL

2) All moving objects require constant connection update => ping increases => gameplay becomes unreliable (abilities misfire or utterly fail to activate, sustained damage gets delayed, so ppl can't heal properly, etc.)

3) the more objects/effects the PC has to render, the more likely graphical glitches will occur: invisible gravity wells, Tykens, Tractors, etc. the game engine is just uncapable of handling all that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 64
06-22-2011, 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardept View Post
not at all, my point is that when player QQ's that X side spams, it is largly omitted that spam is available in equal measure to both sides. i am not justifying it one way or another, yes the kdf 'could' put out more spam than any fed fleet is capable of. however whether such a decision is sensible in terms of effective gameplay is a different issue to the capability to produce spam.

more generally

finding an effective way to deal with spam, while not overly diminishing your teams ability to fight is one of the things teams have to learn, just as how to deal with FAW heavy teams, or SS3 heavy teams, or in one case a team that SS3's faw's spams as much as possible mines/fighters etc and has all the captains, ships and of course fleet labled identically while using that photonic toy (whatever it is called ) to make all the ships look identical. They lost as it happened, if all that wasn't enough to win then using spam as it is now, or FAW or SS or all of it together is not enough to win by itself you still need good players.

Seriously it is no wonder pvp is dying, every thread you read has some 'i am a top pvp'er' claiming the sky is falling and pvp is broken, if you have not tried pvp and you happen to glance at the forum and read some of this nonsense you are just as likely to decide nah i don't think i will bother then pvp is totally broken. it is just about wall to wall crying in this subforum
I agree with you for the most part. The important fact is most in this game do not see PvP as the be all end all of the game. Outside of a handful of fleets that is the rule. I would say that 75% of the remaining PvP fleets do more PvE content then PvP and people PvP for fun but unless you are willing to cookie cutter your builds and team layout you stand a small chance to win. The issue with PvP is it is not fun any more. I refuse to PvP with FaW on my build, most of my fleet thinks that optimal builds are boring and the play needed to maximize those builds is boring. I PvP to have fun not necessarily win but some of the top tire PvP fleets think winning is everything and the only fun they have is when they ROFLstomp some PuG or fleet that is flying 5 escorts. While I see the need for the win at all cost mentality it does nothing but turn off those that may be interested in PvP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 65 NPC spam in PvPs
06-22-2011, 10:02 AM
This topic has been beaten to death a gazillion times.

Its not going to end. PvP will end before the klink carrier spam will end. if you ask me they should have stuck to some canon and never intro'd carriers in the first place.

One captain one ship...was this so hard to follow?

Klinks are complaining about MVAM now....well a ship that splits into 3 vs a carrier that has 6 bops or more bops and itself flying around..then we have these fighters/ repair bots...zzzzz.. who has more spam? I dont even know anymore. People are complaining about sci fleet...well both sides have sci fleet so thats not a topic to cry about. Both sides have mines..so thats moot as well.

Why couldnt they have just stopped with sci fleet/ mines for both sides and call it a game. But no some one thought introducing a carrier was a good idea. Who knows where this rabbit hole will lead now?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 66
06-22-2011, 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardept View Post
not at all, my point is that when player QQ's that X side spams, it is largly omitted that spam is available in equal measure to both sides. i am not justifying it one way or another, yes the kdf 'could' put out more spam than any fed fleet is capable of. however whether such a decision is sensible in terms of effective gameplay is a different issue to the capability to produce spam.
I very much agree with this. It's not just a KDF issue, and honestly a good escort or science ship can usually kill a carrier on their own; an escort and a science ship together will often burn carriers faster than they could a BoP.

Cruisers have a big problem with carriers because they lack burst damage, lack ways to degrade shields, and lack ways to lock out healing. Carriers don't do much burst DPS, so the cruiser's strong defense and healing doesn't help much, and actually get's countered by the carrier's strong science powers. The million-zillion "DPS" cruiser captains out there are just in the wrong ship for fighting carriers, so of course they hate them. If the Fed cruisers focus on protecting the escorts, science vessels debuff and disrupt healing, and escorts focus on DPS, then carriers are very squishy.

A cruiser's 8 beam broadside is not going to diminish a competent carrier's shields. The easy button doesn't work in that match up.

Most carriers draw fire before the rest of their team -- watch what happens when a science captain waits to see all their defensive buffs go up then hits them with SNB. They don't have quite as much ability to double up on defenses as cruisers do, so if something interrupts or makes them waste part of their rotation, they tend to die fast.

Quote:
more generally

finding an effective way to deal with spam, while not overly diminishing your teams ability to fight is one of the things teams have to learn, just as how to deal with FAW heavy teams, or SS3 heavy teams, or in one case a team that SS3's faw's spams as much as possible mines/fighters etc and has all the captains, ships and of course fleet labled identically while using that photonic toy (whatever it is called ) to make all the ships look identical. They lost as it happened, if all that wasn't enough to win then using spam as it is now, or FAW or SS or all of it together is not enough to win by itself you still need good players.

Seriously it is no wonder pvp is dying, every thread you read has some 'i am a top pvp'er' claiming the sky is falling and pvp is broken, if you have not tried pvp and you happen to glance at the forum and read some of this nonsense you are just as likely to decide nah i don't think i will bother then pvp is totally broken. it is just about wall to wall crying in this subforum
I get what you're saying, but I think the learning curve on dealing with spam is a bit too steep. If a tactic which can be employed by any PUG can't be countered by a typical PUG, then it needs to be weakened a bit. It's very common to run into pugs spamming mines and scorpions, but it's a lot less common to run into a PUG that can deal effectively with spam, FAW, SS 3, etc.

If anything is easy to use but hard to counter, that is an imbalance.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 67
06-22-2011, 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by inktomi19d View Post
A cruiser's 8 beam broadside is not going to diminish a competent carrier's shields. The easy button doesn't work in that match up.

Most carriers draw fire before the rest of their team -- watch what happens when a science captain waits to see all their defensive buffs go up then hits them with SNB. They don't have quite as much ability to double up on defenses as cruisers do, so if something interrupts or makes them waste part of their rotation, they tend to die fast.
.
I am not in complete agreement with the above. Cruisers are easier to kill than carriers. Carriers have more shielding and more base hull than cruisers

A competent carrier pilot will out last any competent cruiser pilot. Even after getting SNB'd a carrier could easily last more than a cruiser.

I have seen engs in a carriers tank 5 fed ships in cap and hold matches.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 68
06-22-2011, 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimsonoa View Post
Carriers are OP and can't be killed. I know, I can't kill them either
Hint filter out npcs from options menu.
umm, no.
Quote:
Originally Posted by genxcraig View Post
So your complaining about this paradox you found?
mind reader:p
Quote:
Originally Posted by amidoinitright View Post
I have an idea, maybe Cryptic could boost FAW to get rid of the spam, or add an AOE torpedo.......Er wait.
i even have the T shirt too!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor_Forthright View Post
What game you playing? Carriers are far from the undefeatable mammoths you guys make them out to be. They've been nerfed so hard from release and now with FAW and C:SV as it is they're pets die within seconds. If they're not, you're either not using FAW/C:SV or got something wrong with your power output. Honestly, since launch the number of pets they can launch has been lowered, their shields have been nerfed, and they only have six total weapons despite being the biggest ship in the game. Even the Kar'fi carrier with its extra weapon slot is more than kill-able.
Pretty much.

To the OP, yeah I know the simple powers as I am fed and klink, that is being used to jsut jet away like that. It isnt hard if you think about it. no, i am not posting what it is, but I discovered it a long time ago. Many klinks use it, and get surprised when my fed or klink (in house battles) are sitting right next to them.

Still its not rocket science (no pun intended). PVP is a knowledge skill base endevour, as it always has been. Learn more. Make new friends, gripe and insult less, you might have a good time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 69
06-22-2011, 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerubian_Assasin1
I am not in complete agreement with the above. Cruisers are easier to kill than carriers. Carriers have more shielding and more base hull than cruisers

A competent carrier pilot will out last any competent cruiser pilot. Even after getting SNB'd a carrier could easily last more than a cruiser.

I have seen engs in a carriers tank 5 fed ships in cap and hold matches.
i'll agree with this some.
A compentant ENG in a tanking cruiser, i ignore SNB as well, I am like great, hey thanks for wasting that one me. IF i want to get rid of it I can, most time I ignore it.

Now, a carrier tank 5 fed ships since last couple patches? if the fed players dont know what they are doing, sure i can see that. Against a compentent bunch? nah they will rip through the carrier as easily as they can a cruiser.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 70
06-22-2011, 12:58 PM
I played against a 3 carrier team recently, and since it was an arena there were no friendly turrets about, so they just sat and spawn camped the whole match. When there's only 1 or 2 carriers per match, everything is fine...a science ship and escort team can shred through carriers like they didn't even have shields. But things get tricky when they release their whole swarm, stay in one place, and they have BoP friends sitting next to them cloaked.

Personally...I wish they had never introduced dreadnought class ships into the game for players. But since they did, I'd much rather fight a carrier with BoP wings than fighters, it's a greater risk to me and it's far more enjoyable.
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