Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Excelsior Remorse?
06-09-2011, 10:50 PM
After a year in the game, and swearing off the excelsior, i have finally took the experiment on.

really?

now i feel bad. like ive been against a hard handicapped opponent forever.

i feel overpowered and its throwing me off.

crf2. faw3. apo1. target whatever3 ect...

ugh. options flooding my head for all toons.

am i the only one who has experienced this?

-CaptainHorizon
Damian Gryphon U.S.S. Unthinkable (excelsior)
T'Lexi U.S.S. Dresden (excelsior?)
Sebastian Kex U.S.S. Good Apollo (excelsior?)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
06-09-2011, 11:00 PM
Looking at FAW3s current state I don't think anyone should be aloud to use it in conjunction with DEM3, and any tactical caption buffs such as APA, FoMM, Go Down Fighting ect... It just puts out far to much dps for one ship

That being said I have never flown an excelsior, so i'm not really sure if what I said is true.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
06-09-2011, 11:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammel105 View Post
Looking at FAW3s current state I don't think anyone should be aloud to use it in conjunction with DEM3, and any tactical caption buffs such as APA, FoMM, Go Down Fighting ect... It just puts out far to much dps for one ship

That being said I have never flown an excelsior, so i'm not really sure if what I said is true.
Excelsior is powerful offensively, but hardly enough to make the other cruisers no factors.. What it have in offensiveness it lacks in tankiness.

As for the LtC slot.. FAW is ghey, real PvPers use cannons (and CRF)

"far to much DPS"?

No cruiser matches or surpass a decent escort.. those are also quite resilient with a good team.. Are they too to be denied captain buffs?

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
06-10-2011, 12:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
No cruiser matches or surpass a decent escort
I have to disagree, a tactical caption in cruiser can out damage an escort if played right. the only thing they lack is the burst damage that the escort has.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
06-10-2011, 12:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammel105 View Post
I have to disagree, a tactical caption in cruiser can out damage an escort if played right. the only thing they lack is the burst damage that the escort has.
Let me ask you then:

Which ship is the more effective in a arena match:

1: A Cruiser with 1.500.000 damage and 8 kills?

or

2: A Escort with 650.000 damage and 15 kills?


Consider: In order to make "real" DPS in a cruiser you are giving up a lot of heal capability..

You need to dedicate two slots for EP 2 Weapons, your commander (and possibly your LtC) slot for offensive powers.

You need to use your Tac console for weapon boosts (and thus, have to put the Borg Console into a Sci slot further limiting your heals)

You need to skill in EP2 Weapons boosting boxes.

My own Excelsior:

Weapons:

4x Tetryon Cannon MK XII [CrtH]
2x Tetryon Turret MK XII
2x Tetryon Turret MK XI

Assimilated Deflector
Assimilated Engine

Reman Covariant Shield

1x EPS MK XI - 2x Neutronium Armor MK XII - 1x Field Generator MK XI
1x Induction MK XI - 1x Assimilated Console
3x Tetryon MK XI Consoles

TacTeam1 - AP Beta 1 - CRF 2

EP2W1 - EP2S2 - DEM 2 - DEM 3
EP2W1 - EP2S2
EngT1

SciT1 - TSS2

I have a grand total of 1 hullheal (not counting Borg Procs) - Im exactly as vulnerable to focusfire as a escort, and though I have far more effective HP, Im exactly as reliant on teamheals as a escort.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
06-10-2011, 01:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
Consider: In order to make "real" DPS in a cruiser you are giving up a lot of heal capability..
If you are talking about the excelsior that might be the case... but other cruisers do just fine with the heals they have. e.g. The Assault Cruiser and the Vor'cha retrofit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
You need to dedicate two slots for EP 2 Weapons.
Just one EptW1 seems to work fine.

An example my Vor'cha Cruiser:

Weapons:
8x Disruptor beam array [acc]

Impulse/Deflector/Shields
Assimilated Engine
Assimilated Deflector
Ageis Covariant

Engy Consoles: 2x EPS MK XI, 1x Field Generator MK XI, 1x Enhaced Plasma Manifold XI

Sci Consoles: 1x Halon System MK XI, 1x Assimilated Console

Tac Consoles: 3x Disruptor Console MK XI

Layout:
TacTeam1, APB1
FAW1
EP2W1, Aux2Sif1, EPtS3, DEM 3
Engteam1, RSP1, EPtS3

TSS1, HE2

I do just fine with healing myself and my team if I need to... and I get top damage most of the time even against "good" escorts
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
06-10-2011, 02:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammel105 View Post
If you are talking about the excelsior that might be the case... but other cruisers do just fine with the heals they have. e.g. The Assault Cruiser and the Vor'cha retrofit.


Just one EptW1 seems to work fine.

An example my Vor'cha Cruiser:

Weapons:
8x Disruptor beam array [acc]

Impulse/Deflector/Shields
Assimilated Engine
Assimilated Deflector
Ageis Covariant

Engy Consoles: 2x EPS MK XI, 1x Field Generator MK XI, 1x Enhaced Plasma Manifold XI

Sci Consoles: 1x Halon System MK XI, 1x Assimilated Console

Tac Consoles: 3x Disruptor Console MK XI

Layout:
TacTeam1, APB1
FAW1
EP2W1, Aux2Sif1, EPtS3, DEM 3
Engteam1, RSP1, EPtS3

TSS1, HE2

I do just fine with healing myself and my team if I need to... and I get top damage most of the time even against "good" escorts
I think your not getting MelineAaele's point. Top damage is not a reflection of actual DPS. Great you have 1.5 million in DPS and was counted in on 8 kills. But what did you do for those 8 kills? manage to keep the enemies shields down so an escort could finish them off? You have no torps so I know you didn't torp them off. And unless you have a hidden Beam over load, your beams alone were not enough to strip someones hull from 100 percent to 0 on your own.

Where as the escort, has less dps but more kills. Meaning, they managed to out right kill the ships quicker then they could be healed. That is why the current scoring system is flawed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
06-10-2011, 02:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammel105 View Post
If you are talking about the excelsior that might be the case... but other cruisers do just fine with the heals they have. e.g. The Assault Cruiser and the Vor'cha retrofit.


Just one EptW1 seems to work fine.

An example my Vor'cha Cruiser:

Weapons:
8x Disruptor beam array [acc]

Impulse/Deflector/Shields
Assimilated Engine
Assimilated Deflector
Ageis Covariant

Engy Consoles: 2x EPS MK XI, 1x Field Generator MK XI, 1x Enhaced Plasma Manifold XI

Sci Consoles: 1x Halon System MK XI, 1x Assimilated Console

Tac Consoles: 3x Disruptor Console MK XI

Layout:
TacTeam1, APB1
FAW1
EP2W1, Aux2Sif1, EPtS3, DEM 3
Engteam1, RSP1, EPtS3

TSS1, HE2

I do just fine with healing myself and my team if I need to... and I get top damage most of the time even against "good" escorts
Well.. Now you are using FAW, the only skill (broken mind you) that puts out 260% of your base damage.

Furthermore you are limiting your DPS for roughly half the match (30 secs uptime on EPW with 60 sec CD).. With dual EPW your weaponpower (and thus damage) would be constant throughout all of the match.

And while, sure.. It can do *more* damage than a escort, it isnt as *effective* damage as the one bursting from a escort.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
06-10-2011, 02:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
Let me ask you then:

Which ship is the more effective in a arena match:

1: A Cruiser with 1.500.000 damage and 8 kills?

or

2: A Escort with 650.000 damage and 15 kills?
well, it's hard not to get 15 kills if you use faw and actually i do 2x of the damage of my escort when i'm in my faw cruiser (which is not often, because it's just stupid ). but it's not the excelsior that is op but faw. at least most ppl. in faw boats don't know how to setup it right .
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
06-10-2011, 02:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by H.Ramone
well, it's hard not to get 15 kills if you use faw and actually i do 2x of the damage of my escort when i'm in my faw cruiser (which is not often, because it's just stupid ). but it's not the excelsior that is op but faw. at least most ppl. in faw boats don't know how to setup it right .
15 kills?? Really the system needs to be changed to show how much a factor in each kill you are. FAW cruisers should have linked to all 15 kills, they most likely fired on each ship for a few seconds and it counted them. The real question is " did you DPS really do anything to finish this ship off or not?"

We are also talking about a borked skill that a compromise has not been found yet. If and when its nerfed, cruisers will not out DPS escorts unless its a cruiser fest.
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