Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 101
06-23-2011, 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by admneal View Post
This post wasn't to solicit advise....
I stated the the time I have followed the game, because it is relevant. I see the effects of every major change , to start with the saying the system is beyond reproach, and a person that has been doing pvp since the beginning ... clearly the person is a fault. I don't get that logic. So sorry, but if this is indeed a balanced game, the need to change ships would not be there.

In addition, in response to other comments, I stated "beams" because no matter the energy type (at the same level and rarity) the base damage is the same, only the procs differ. Thus, it really doesn't matter what the energy type is, in regarded to damage.

FaW should not be the reason beams are somehow uber. Most cruisers are locked out of any of the higher powered tac powers.

I agree that people hijack the tread and make things into what they want to... somehow cruisers are totally crap - never said that.
Beams are arguably the best weapons in the game - moderate damage, huge arc, and the most supporting Tac skills.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 102
06-23-2011, 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Data
I see your phaser lance and I will step to the side and will wait 10 mins for you turn to get me back in to the firing arc. :p
Not really, takes just tractor beam, reverse engines + EPtE and im right behind you :p
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# 103
06-23-2011, 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
Not really, takes just tractor beam, reverse engines + EPtE and im right behind you :p
I see but AP:O+EM I am behind you. :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 104
06-23-2011, 02:20 PM
Quote:
Beams are arguably the best weapons in the game - moderate damage, huge arc, and the most supporting Tac skills.
And the cheapest skills as well.

There seems to be a common thinking that the damage output of a Cruiser must all come from his weapons.
But then, it is the Escort that gets all the damage buffs. It is no surprise that it's also the Escort that deals the most damage.

People complain that without the current BFAW, Cruiser firepower is too weak. But it's not those 4 DHCs that makes Tactical Escorts such massive damage dealers. It is those 7 tactical slots they have that boosts their weapon outfitting.

If you want Cruiser to reach similar damage outputs, it must mostly come from his 7 engineering powers (or let's say 4-5 engineering powers and 2-3 tactical powers). it cannot come from the beams alone, and it can't come from the 2-3 tactical powers alone either.

It means as a player that wants a damage build, you have to try out:
- Eject Warp Plasma
- Aceton Field
- Emergency Power to Weapons
- Directed Energy Modulation

If you think these powers can't do the job, there are two things to do:
- Suggest how they can be tweaked.
- If they cannot be tweaked as it conflicts with their role (I'd say that EWP and AF are more control/debuff powers than damage powers), suggest new powers.

But live with the possiblity that maybe Cryptic just doesn't want any class to be able to fill any role. The Cruiser's role might never become about "Burst" damage as the Escort's role is.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 105
06-23-2011, 02:31 PM
Put a Tricobalt on your cruiser.That will give you some burst damage. Sometimes.
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# 106
06-23-2011, 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
OK so what is your propsal then... a 20% increase in beam dmg or something... you never really gave any specifics. You do understand those same unkillable escorts can put beams on too right.

I agree with you its better to buff in general... however what is it your thinking needs to be buffed. Beam Arrays do more dmg then turrets with slightly less arc... beam arrays do slightly less dmg then single cannons which have a slightly smaller arc... Dual Beam banks do slighly less dmg then dual cannons which have an even smaller arc....

All total beams suffer from up to 50% less dmg drop at range.

I still don't see how the issue is the weapon dmg numbers.

So if the weapons have good specs... which they do FYI.

Then would it not make more sense to look at buffs to engi skill to make a cruiser more potent?

Others have suggested buffs to Aceton field and DEM... those would buff the guys most likely using beams aka the cruiser folk... would that not achieve what you are looking for with out turning STO in to DISCO online. (thats what it will look like when everyone including all those escorts drop there cannons for beams cause they got a nice buff)
As you well know, I'm right there with the OP on the "buff" rather than NERF.

I believe a better "fix" for this problem would be to take the existing assault crusier(s) and add some DPS at the cost of "tank". Think they tried that with the excel and it seemed to work for awhile, but the disparity seems to be ever-growing with all the CHANGES/NERFs we're getting and have gotten now.

I heard there was going to be another escort coming out that was going to fill some of this bill also. But I've still have yet to read any proposed stats.

Your right, they could "buff" up AF, which is pretty useless ATM, but I'm afraid it would be just another "new FaW" and would gets it's NERF a few months down the road also. But with the loss of crusier DPS comiing in S4, something will probably need to be added. FaW was a good in between fix (mostly AoE damage spread around) until the exploits and "fed-balls" started. The end comparable DPS numbers seemed about right. However, it is a little too easy to get 5 beam-boats spamming FaW right now. Interesting to note that they really did nothing to "fix" that other than another 5 minutes for it being on cool down. You can still run FaW 1 and 2 on a crusier, excels 1, 2, and 3, your just 1/3 not quite as mean with them. But 5 boats in a co-ordinated effort will still be just about the same exact thing that there is now. (for 10 minutes instead of 15 minutes). SIngle target damage however, got the large NERF.
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# 107
06-23-2011, 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esquire View Post
As you well know, I'm right there with the OP on the "buff" rather than NERF.

I believe a better "fix" for this problem would be to take the existing assault crusier(s) and add some DPS at the cost of "tank". Think they tried that with the excel and it seemed to work for awhile, but the disparity seems to be ever-growing with all the CHANGES/NERFs we're getting and have gotten now.

I heard there was going to be another escort coming out that was going to fill some of this bill also. But I've still have yet to read any proposed stats.

Your right, they could "buff" up AF, which is pretty useless ATM, but I'm afraid it would be just another "new FaW" and would gets it's NERF a few months down the road also. But with the loss of crusier DPS comiing in S4, something will probably need to be added. FaW was a good in between fix (mostly AoE damage spread around) until the exploits and "fed-balls" started. The end comparable DPS numbers seemed about right. However, it is a little too easy to get 5 beam-boats spamming FaW right now. Interesting to note that they really did nothing to "fix" that other than another 5 minutes for it being on cool down. You can still run FaW 1 and 2 on a crusier, excels 1, 2, and 3, your just 1/3 not quite as mean with them. But 5 boats in a co-ordinated effort will still be just about the same exact thing that there is now. (for 10 minutes instead of 15 minutes). SIngle target damage however, got the large NERF.
Well FAW is bugged and pretty much was the exploit... it will no longer ignore ACC... which might be all that is needed to bring it into line. I don't think Cryptic has any idea if that will do the trick either... hence the we will tune as needed addendum to the notes.

I can roll with buff over nerf... but I won't go so far as to say bugs should be left in game... New faw is bugged, there for its not a nerf, its a bug fix. Perhaps a bug fixed version will be fine... they Jury will be out, and perhaps Cryptic will pay attention to the results.

A buff to AF would be unlikely to create a faw issue... it still has a long cool down and unless they change the HZ counter it will never be OP. However perhaps it needs to have its arc removed and perhaps even a doubling of the Radiation... Or have the Radiation Hurt more the more nrg weapon fire a victim uses. Still an easy counter so It shouldn't become OP... however it gives a cruiser a way of timing it for max effect... which I understand isn't that easy in a slow turning ship..

As for DEM the current bug needs to be fixed and perhaps the dmg could stand to be increased slightly... or have its cool down dropped... I would love to see dem get a 15 second up time with a 45 sec cool down... it would be the same up time but give it a bit more of a tactical usage perhaps.
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# 108
06-23-2011, 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
As for DEM the current bug needs to be fixed and perhaps the dmg could stand to be increased slightly... or have its cool down dropped... I would love to see dem get a 15 second up time with a 45 sec cool down... it would be the same up time but give it a bit more of a tactical usage perhaps.
DEM bug?

/10char
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# 109
06-23-2011, 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry_Black_Man
In all seriousness, beams are fine. I must take umbrage with people insinuating that a Tac/Cruiser build isn't viable. You can get some pretty hefty DPS in a cruiser.
If you can do it then more power to you, but that's the exception rather than the rule. Most people that try to use a cruiser for DPS really can't. Cruisers are great for keeping pressure up, and can turn in big numbers over the course of a match, but both escorts and science ships are better for killing enemies quickly.

There are cruiser captains who break the rule, but you can be 95% certain that you won't end up on a team with them.
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Posts: 120
# 110
06-24-2011, 12:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Thy View Post
Man that match lasted for almost an hour. 2 escorts (me sci, Imi Tac), 1 helluva cruser healer and a sci on SV. On the other side 5 cruisers (mixed Eng and Tac) spamming FaW, heals and mines. (one Eng cruiser had cannons/turrets tho).

There were so many FaW beams around I'd have never survived more than 10 seconds inside the Happy Cruiser Ball of FaW Love without activating every defensive ability I had plus Perfect and Killer spraying both me and Imi with lots of heals.

While on the other side, taking down each cruiser was a real pain in the AFT. Stacking AUX2SIF, HEs, Extends, EptS, Rotate Shield Freq, etc made each cruiser almost invulnerble for prolonged periods of time. If it wasn't for SNBs and PSWs we wouldn't have taken down almost anyone.
Actually, there were two cruisers using cannons, me (Excelsior) and the eng/cruiser (Gal-R).. One on our team were flying a D'kyr (and he didnt bother to team up).. On the other hand, your 5th player were an Tac-Excelsior spamming FAW
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