Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 191
06-29-2011, 12:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by admneal View Post
Lol thats was not the point of winning, the point was a whole group of 5 cruisers could not withstand the damage.
There are random groups of 5 that you can meet in arenas who cannot withstand the damage of a single escort. (Some players may remember the infamous screenshot.) And that is not because escorts are op, but rather because the average group is really bad at self- and crosshealing.

Lately (the last couple of months) I have been playing DPS cruisers as Sci or Tac captain. Since I currently don't have access to my main screenshot folder, I can only provide these two:

Match 1
Match 2

In both cases Dread Pirate Roberts is a Sci/Cruiser with 8 Mk X beam arrays. Take a look at the tray and notice that this is without FAW. New Faw™ can greatly increase the damage numbers, and in case you are interested in its potential, I could provide some older "FAW against carriers" screenshots.

Obviously an engineering cruiser has a higher raw damage potential than a Sci/Cruiser because of EPS transfer/Nadion Inversion.


Point of all this: A damage dealing cruiser is a viable option right now, even without FAW.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 192
06-29-2011, 12:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by admneal View Post
Well, I dont really need you to show me anything.... Lol the hubris to assume that I do.
As a sci ship and I guess a sci officer, you have more tools to do damage to shields and other systems rather than just the beams only.... and you really dont have to worry about holding the ship together due to far better shields. So, if I could cut anyone buffs off at any moment I chose while messing up their cool downs... I would do better damage as well. So, to compare your ablities in a totally diffent ship, and say you "know" what beams do doesnt weight much to me. After playing countless rounds on pvp, I have seen my beams all 5-7 of them (depending on build) do zip to others shields. Running the best gear and all the power my ship as allows.

So, some see it as a shield resistance issue, I see it as problem with the damage beams do to the shields. Why nerf when you can buff? I have been vocal about cannons becauae they do supreme damage to everything. cannons focus was supost to be hull, beams burned shields. That is not the case in game, cannons cut right trough my shields, yet I can't damage the shields of something thats not built to tank with weapons designed for shields.
First the only thing that makes beams any better vs shields is there hit to range. They loose around 20% of there dmg at 10k, cannons loose 80%... there for yes beams in general do better dmg to sheilds as they are in general a better dmg over time weapon.

If you have been following this game for as long as you claim then you would understand the gear means squat... I would beat up on most cruisers using white weapons... in fact I have 10 toons and hate pve most of my ships run mostly green weapons. lol

You have stated you are having major issues getting through shields... yet refuse to say how you are going about that other then "I use beams"... honestly your stating you have an issue, you have stated your thoughts on what the solution is... a buff to a weapon type that is balanced as is. I think its time for you to admit that perhaps you do not have the optimal build at this point in the game. When I find a build isn't working I change it... I have changed ships and builds 100s of times... I do that to find new ways to overcome issues I am having in game (IE I LIKE TO KILL PEOPLE) If I need more burst I reengineer, if I need a way to break X I find a way to load Y.... my ships are constantly changing, and I take ideas from ships I fight, from players I play with, and I make them my own. So far from your comments I see someone who is not exactly willing to be a humble student... if I am wrong and you are the best to play the game you would hardly be complaining I would think. I would say its time for you to state what your running... and the tactics your using, perhaps people could surprise you with some honest help.... or if you do in fact have the perfect cruiser build, you may sway some people to your way of thinking. Right now you have made vague statements and refused to back them up...

Here let me give you an idea... I HATE to death watching cruisers fly around me and not die... so

I run 3 DHC 2 turrets (3 turrets on my fed) 1 DBB... I run Rapid Fire 3... Beam Overload 3... Beta 1
I use tac init and keep Rapid fire and Beta going as long as I can... I bind my DBB to a diffrent key so I can fire cannons and NOT fire my beam... with tac init I preload my Beam overload and this gives me a 15 second window... too Remove a shield facing with Rapid fire... when I see hull... I wait 1-2 seconds for power to return to 125... then I Beam Overload... then I load Beam Overlad 3 again, and I wait 4 seconds (I run 2 EPS units to fix the drain, I have to wait 4 seconds for the beam to cycle) Then I Beam Overload AGAIN.

This is my solution to cruisers that want to fly around and annoy me... I pump beam overload... on my bop I throw in a tractor and a shockwave... on my escorts I use Aux to Damp... and an omega to stay on a facing and push the dmg even harder. Bottom line I didn't like cruiser healing so I formulated a solution.

Give us some details on your tactics and perhaps we can spit ball some new tricks for you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 193
06-29-2011, 01:03 AM
What's wrong with beams again ? superior arcs, superior range, one spike skill, one aoe skil, several gimping skill ? Arrays and turrets are the only weapons in game that can shoot all at once on a single target.

While cannons may have burst and ....well more burst, with pretty limited arc, horrible effective range and only 2 skill type and none on ensign ?

If anything, give us some basic ensign cannon power. Or change beams target subsystem to just target subsystem affecting all weapons.

And people who complain about cannon burst should just learn how to use EPtS + Tactical Team.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 194
06-29-2011, 01:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
If anything, give us some basic ensign cannon power. Or change beams target subsystem to just target subsystem affecting all weapons.
Ya but that would make the raptor usable..... ohh my I can hear the wining already.

You speak the truth though... if anything cannons need to be un gimped. 90 Degree arcs for Dual Cannons (non Heavy).. Target Subsystem, tasty testy. CSV getting dropped down one tier to match faw should be in the cards as well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 195
06-29-2011, 01:12 AM
I would welcome 90 degree dual cannons or even 60 degrees. That would make Dual cannons more popular on klingon battle cruisers and galaxy-X. They may have same DPS on paper, but because all modifiers are % based, DHC profit much more from them while having same arc.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 196
06-29-2011, 01:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceroid View Post
Ah, now we get to the heart of the matter. You think that just because "capital ships" (cruisers) are the icon ships of the Star Trek IP, that they should be the be-all end-all ship in STO. There is one little problem with that opinion... GAME BALANCE. When designing multiplayer video games, balance comes first. ALWAYS. If Cryptic were to follow the precedent set by the shows/movies, cruisers would destroy everything, bops would explode from one photon torpedo, and everybody in lol ground would die in one shot. Is that really what you want? When playing a video game, you have to set aside what is "official" or "canon" in favor of balancing the game in a way that is fun for all parties involved.
The BoP and ground part made me lol thank you
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 197
06-29-2011, 01:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by admneal View Post
This is futile.... its amazing that the problem has to be the person not the system. None can question anything... Im done.
Looks like assistance is futile for you
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 198
06-29-2011, 02:48 AM
By the way, they are right. The only things we (the thread readers) know about you are: Engineer on Assault Cruiser with 5 beam arrays.

Aside from some anecdotal tale, you haven't given us any real input. No build, no BO or weapon layout, no testable way to prove there's an actual issue with beams.

If you think your beams suck, just switch the frontal ones with Dual Beam Banks. Or, if you think cannons are uber, just make a cannon/turret cruiser! And consider switching from Assault to Excelsior, it has more DPS potential.

Also, you can be the best player ever with the coolest build ever thought, but if you pug alone with random players you'll frequently be disappointed.

When I find myself alone, with friends offline and no good team on the horizon, I don't even bother to queue. Most of the time you end up with PvE players whose only goal is to die quickly and collect their daily emblems...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 199
06-29-2011, 03:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by admneal View Post
Oh goodness, now I don't know anything about MMOs.... And class types. I have played many major MMOs all the way back since Ultima Online. So please spare me your "expertise." I can voice my opinion just as much as anyone else on here. Stop blaming the players and look at what faults the system has.
Are you ultimately saying me that your experience beats the experience of other players? Why so?

I was in a Cruiser slug-fest once. 5 Cruisers vs 5 Cruisers.

After our team adjusted their BOs outside red alert phases, our cruiser team won. Does that mean Cruisers deal too little damage and too much damage?

I've seen Cruisers that I could not beat focusing fire with 3 or 4 man, including the occassional subnucleonic beam. I've also seen Cruisers that I destroyed in one pass.

What abilities you use is important. How you use them is important. And there is a wide range of possible builds and player skills in this game. Just because a PuG of Cruiser pilots lost a match to a mixed group of ships doesn't prove anything. In the end, every match has to have one winner. (Except the few rare matches where no kills happen or where the match ends 15vs15...) That doesn't mean one class is OP or UP, it just means one team was better than the other. it could be because of totally overpowered skills, or it could just be of smarter play on one side. The fact that one side lost doesn't tell you that at all.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 200
06-29-2011, 03:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Thy View Post
Most of the time you end up with PvE players whose only goal is to die quickly and collect their daily emblems...
Luckily, such players are usually on both sides, so its even :p
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