Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 51
06-22-2011, 07:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by admneal View Post
I can't believe the foolery on this board.... Escort fan-boys out in effect tonight. Beams are fine is 100% B.S.
Capital ships and the icons of the Star Trek franchise, are nearly support vessels in this world. The Defiant totally owned the Borg Cube in First Contact. This is a simple case of Cryptic's DSP is every thing mantra, like COX games.
It's not just escort fans. I run a Sovereign and a Marauder with Engineer captains (both beam-boats), an Intrepid-R with a science captain (a torpedo boat), and tactical captains with an Excelsior-R (all cannons, and I truly suck with it) and a Defiant-R (I still keep one DBB for BOv3 and 1 quantum for HYT3 in addition to my DHCs). I probably spend most of my time in cruisers, though I'm kind of digging my Intrepid lately.

Honestly the thing that sucks worst playing my cruisers is that I'm likely to be on a team with a bunch of other cruisers, so we don't have any DPS, and while I carry a bunch of heals, if I get bushwhacked while my heals are on cooldown from helping team-mates, I'm usually the only healer in the match. The cruisers are a blast to play on a balanced team though.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 52
06-22-2011, 07:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceroid View Post
Ah, now we get to the heart of the matter. You think that just because "capital ships" (cruisers) are the icon ships of the Star Trek IP, that they should be the be-all end-all ship in STO. There is one little problem with that opinion... GAME BALANCE. When designing multiplayer video games, balance comes first. ALWAYS. If Cryptic were to follow the precedent set by the shows/movies, cruisers would destroy everything, bops would explode from one photon torpedo, and everybody in lol ground would die in one shot. Is that really what you want? When playing a video game, you have to set aside what is "official" or "canon" in favor of balancing the game in a way that is fun for all parties involved.
No... that's what YOU want to make it out to be. If you read my comments, instead of this rush to judgement, you would see i said that damage of a cruiser should not be equal to that of a escort. However, I would find it puzzling that a large ship with an massive warp core and 8 weapons couldn't phase a supposedly less well defended ship.

GAME BALANCE is the thing that this game lacks. Sorry you are happy with the current situation, but I'm not. If a game is truly balanced I shouldn't be forced into one ONE type to have some effect. But then when it was instant pop days or ramming speed feast I guess that was all balanced to you as well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 53
06-22-2011, 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by admneal View Post
No... that's what YOU want to make it out to be. If you read my comments, instead of this rush to judgement, you would see i said that damage of a cruiser should not be equal to that of a escort. However, I would find it puzzling that a large ship with an massive warp core and 8 weapons couldn't phase a supposedly less well defended ship.

GAME BALANCE is the thing that this game lacks. Sorry you are happy with the current situation, but I'm not. If a game is truly balanced I shouldn't be forced into one ONE type to have some effect. But then when it was instant pop days or ramming speed feast I guess that was all balanced to you as well.
1-1 a cruiser will eventually beat an escort, unless the escort runs. If you can't effect the escort he's getting help from somewhere.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 54
06-22-2011, 08:05 PM
I'm not so sure if your argument is about Cruiser's being too squishy (which is not true, I'll hop in mine and tank you until you get bored, using one hand) or if it really is about beams.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 55
06-22-2011, 08:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by admneal View Post
No... that's what YOU want to make it out to be. If you read my comments, instead of this rush to judgement, you would see i said that damage of a cruiser should not be equal to that of a escort. However, I would find it puzzling that a large ship with an massive warp core and 8 weapons couldn't phase a supposedly less well defended ship.

GAME BALANCE is the thing that this game lacks. Sorry you are happy with the current situation, but I'm not. If a game is truly balanced I shouldn't be forced into one ONE type to have some effect. But then when it was instant pop days or ramming speed feast I guess that was all balanced to you as well.
Put me up against any escort and I will kill it using a cruiser. If you are having trouble killing escorts 1v1 in a cruiser, then to put it bluntly, you're doing it wrong.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 56
06-22-2011, 08:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
There is simply no more argument to be made....

What is it that is so under powered with beam. You have failed to make any real argument, so I assume your simply sour as there is no meat to your words.

Is it the range to hit issues with beams? Oh ya there is no range to hit issues
Is it the rate of fire you don't like?
Is it the Firing arc?
Is it the general Dmg numbers?

I don't get what area you think they need love in ? I have no issues pretty much keeping up with most escorts in the dmg department with my sci ship that sports a total of 4 beams ? Cruiser wise, ya my cruiser does so so dmg, but that is because a cruiser isn't really intended to be a dmg ship... having said that I have played with DEM EWP and Target Shields on a cruiser to effect very very good KILL numbers.

So please tell us how your cruiser is loaded so we can point you in a new direction if you are having issues with it doing dmg (If that is what your going for... as again your "Captial" Ship isn't really intended to out dmg the warships... um I mean escorts)
Well, you know what happens when you assume....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 57
06-22-2011, 08:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by inktomi19d View Post
1-1 a cruiser will eventually beat an escort, unless the escort runs. If you can't effect the escort he's getting help from somewhere.
Exactly.... 1 on 1 a well played cruiser will beat a well played escort most of the time... that isn't to say all of the time... consider they class you are fighting and pay attention to there buffs. (if it is a one on one and there is no external help)

Here is what I consider perfect Defensive Escort play... (Ops will Very)

Tac Team use... should be used when facing is at low point
Attack Pattern Omega... Should be used during the 15 second Gap (See below)... or for defense from GW / Tractors if needed
Attack Pattern Delta... A great skill to find room for if your a Tac... Use it when you take fire to keep the hull up and boost offense.
Brace For impact used every time a facing is low... or TBR is used
Hazards Idealy get used during 15 second shield resist low point. (if hull is low before this use Go Down fighting and ignore)

Tac Escort...
Shields can be Max Hardened for 15 seconds every 45 seconds (TSS 2 + EPTS 2)
Shields can be Medium Hard for 30 Seconds (EPTS 2)
Shields have the lowest Resist numbers for 15 Seconds during EPTS 2 Gap

Sci Escort...
Shields can be Max Hardened for 30 seconds every 3 min (Sci Fleet + EPTS 2)
Shields on a sci can be kept at almost max for a further 15 seconds by timing a TSS 2 to start at the end of sci fleet.
Shields are lowest when sci fleet is on cool down and EPTS 2 is gaped... window takes longer to come up but its still there

Engi Escort...
Shields really don't have any large gaps if the Engi is playing properly... however they are the most susceptible to a Sub noob as you are likely to catch lots of stuff on cool down, and the offensive skills reserve is lowest.

So bottom line you need to understand who you are fighting not just the ship class... you need to time your attacks to counter theres... and understand what they are susceptible too....

Skills that work well vs escorts in general

1) Target Subs... Most escorts don't carry a engi team these days.
- Engines Is good if you have a spike to follow it with as most escots will have engine bats installed
- Shields can be good as most escorts don't run high shield power (Timing has to be right as most run 1 or 2 copies of EPTS)
- Weapons can be very effective... if that escort has only engine bats, this is going to be annoying.
- Aux is more effective then many think.... No escort is running EPTA... almost none accept the odd MVAM is going to have aux bats... and 2 of there 4 heals are going to run on aux... do the math.

2) Speed killers
- Tractor beams... Force the escort to stop and kill their defense or pop evasives / bats earlier then they would like
- Ekect Warp Plasma... if you can snare them defense is screwed... and you can force a hazards early... leaving them with no hull heal for awhile.

3) Direct to hull
- EWP (See above)
- DEM - Dem is not a massive dmg boost however it is direct to hull and ignores shields... might be a good option durring the HIGH shield resist phase of a fight.

4) System Disruption
- Boarding Party - underrated... must be timed properly, launch close and when Tac team is not an option... if your escort target was smart enough to have an engi team to fix that target engines... great hit em with BP. lol
- VM... more of a sci thing of course... but same as above only bait the engi team out.

This has turned into a long post... point I am making is look at the problem, identify it, then decide how you are going to counter the issue you are having. Because honestly the issue is in your build I can assure you... and I don't mean that to sound rude.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 58
06-22-2011, 08:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by admneal View Post
Well, you know what happens when you assume....
Still no actual response. So clearly Husanak's assumption is correct.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 59
06-22-2011, 08:31 PM
This is futile.... its amazing that the problem has to be the person not the system. None can question anything... Im done.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 60
06-22-2011, 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by admneal View Post
This is futile.... its amazing that the problem has to be the person not the system. None can question anything... Im done.
Great, that means this thread might go away now unless someone po--

whoops
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