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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
07-02-2011, 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
It will still pose an advantage to go up (for everyone), as it means the enemy takes longer to get to you, as he can never use his full speed to reach there (as some component of his speed is always directed to the horizontal). But it is even an advantage in the moment-to-moment combat maneuvering, so that long-term drawback will probably be not be taken in mind.

To really fix this, Cryptic would have to go full 3D. And they don't want that, and most likely will never do it. Apparently, the 21st century casual player just can't handle full 3D.
I think crypic's view on that has become internal dogma for them, but it is completely incorrect. The yaw limitation is bizarre. I find it FAR more confusing than normal 3D motion. but because they "baked" this faulty 2d assumption (a "Legacy" from the old Armada games) into their code, changing it to be the way it should be (like in Bridge Commander) will be a major overhaul. I think it would be very much worth it. Ships could still tend to match roll to the map's ecliptic.

and Sensors need a long range mode
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
07-02-2011, 11:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
To really fix this, Cryptic would have to go full 3D. And they don't want that, and most likely will never do it. Apparently, the 21st century casual player just can't handle full 3D.
If you can't handle full 3-d, you have no business playing a space combat game. That being said, it would not be a smart business decision on cryptics part to risk losing more people due to said problem or to intimidate potential new people with a 3d space combat system.

However, seeing the fairly low numbers of people left in this game compared to what it used to be... what have you really got to lose?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
07-03-2011, 01:42 AM
bah, all they need to do is increase it by a couple degrees. No need to get crazy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
07-03-2011, 02:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavairo
PvP balance is the only thing that matters for one.
I don't think so. The fact that there is no balance in PvE is a problem this game had for a while. if there was, flying a Science Vessel would not be such a tedious affair in PvE, and PvE might actually be interesting and challenging.

Of course, the firing arc problem is primarily a PvP issue, as NPCs don't usually cycle up.

Quote:
If you can't handle full 3-d, you have no business playing a space combat game. That being said, it would not be a smart business decision on cryptics part to risk losing more people due to said problem or to intimidate potential new people with a 3d space combat system.
Exactly this business sense is what means that we don't have any new 3D Space Combat Games at all. Because there just aren't many people that enjoy full 3D space combat.

In the end, if you want "realistic" space combat - Startrek isn't really close to it. Independence War might have come closest...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
07-03-2011, 05:51 AM
This "Unable to grasp 3D movement in space" thing made me wonder ... how many ppl are there that want to be pilots *gee*
To be honest 3d is not so bad as long as you have to maneuver and pew pew. For own orientation all you need to do is pick a orientation point
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
07-03-2011, 07:05 AM
please replay Star Trek Legacy

you can go straight up in that game, you can't fly a looping either, but you can go straight up.

then please return and tell me what happens when you fly straight up and start turning your ship left/right without any resistance.

i tell you that much: your crew will feel like a milkshake.

and that is the real reason why it is so limited in STO, the very same crap would happen here.


to counter this, STO would need a real 3D camera and movement (and a 3D minimap instead of a 2D low res jpg with icons so people do not loose their directions),
but then this game would turn from an MMO into a Simulator and ....the Devs seem to be the only ones who do not want this for "design choice" reasons.

I say it is a Engine limitation, they just don't want to say it out loud.


...you have to choose your battles, this is one that we, as customers, can't win.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
07-03-2011, 08:24 AM
It can't be an engine limitation, as there is full 3D movement possible in Champions Online.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
07-03-2011, 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
It can't be an engine limitation, as there is full 3D movement possible in Champions Online.
I remember them mentioning some where that they tried to do full up and down arcs but using Champions Online to do it, and the ships didn't look right some how.. I Don't know what they were refering to, but I do recall that statement being made.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
07-03-2011, 08:10 PM
Perhaps, but even if the angle was increased to a mere 80 degrees, it'd alleviate most of the problem. As it stands now, there's just no good reason for it to be left in this state, and I can't think why anyone thought this would be a good way to do it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
07-03-2011, 10:34 PM
Mhh I think I remember an old DOS/WIndows 95 game called Descent with full 360 degree rotation, banking, rolling, you name it :p
Shouldn't be that hard. And for the noobies it had automatic angle correction.

But seriously, if full 3D movement would be too hard for the noobs, create in fact an option to keep the 'old' movement possible, like they do now with the new Shooter mode which is 'Optional'. Too bad if its a limitation and unfair, but there is always the option....
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