I think crypic's view on that has become internal dogma for them, but it is completely incorrect. The yaw limitation is bizarre. I find it FAR more confusing than normal 3D motion. but because they "baked" this faulty 2d assumption (a "Legacy" from the old Armada games) into their code, changing it to be the way it should be (like in Bridge Commander) will be a major overhaul. I think it would be very much worth it. Ships could still tend to match roll to the map's ecliptic.

and Sensors need a long range mode

If you can't handle full 3-d, you have no business playing a space combat game. That being said, it would not be a smart business decision on cryptics part to risk losing more people due to said problem or to intimidate potential new people with a 3d space combat system.

However, seeing the fairly low numbers of people left in this game compared to what it used to be... what have you really got to lose?

bah, all they need to do is increase it by a couple degrees. No need to get crazy.

I don't think so. The fact that there is no balance in PvE is a problem this game had for a while. if there was, flying a Science Vessel would not be such a tedious affair in PvE, and PvE might actually be interesting and challenging.

Of course, the firing arc problem is primarily a PvP issue, as NPCs don't usually cycle up.

Exactly this business sense is what means that we don't have any new 3D Space Combat Games at all. Because there just aren't many people that enjoy full 3D space combat.

In the end, if you want "realistic" space combat - Startrek isn't really close to it. Independence War might have come closest...

This "Unable to grasp 3D movement in space" thing made me wonder ... how many ppl are there that want to be pilots *gee*
To be honest 3d is not so bad as long as you have to maneuver and pew pew. For own orientation all you need to do is pick a orientation point

please replay Star Trek Legacy

you can go straight up in that game, you can't fly a looping either, but you can go straight up.

then please return and tell me what happens when you fly straight up and start turning your ship left/right without any resistance.

i tell you that much: your crew will feel like a milkshake.

and that is the real reason why it is so limited in STO, the very same crap would happen here.


to counter this, STO would need a real 3D camera and movement (and a 3D minimap instead of a 2D low res jpg with icons so people do not loose their directions),
but then this game would turn from an MMO into a Simulator and ....the Devs seem to be the only ones who do not want this for "design choice" reasons.

I say it is a Engine limitation, they just don't want to say it out loud.


...you have to choose your battles, this is one that we, as customers, can't win.

It can't be an engine limitation, as there is full 3D movement possible in Champions Online.

I remember them mentioning some where that they tried to do full up and down arcs but using Champions Online to do it, and the ships didn't look right some how.. I Don't know what they were refering to, but I do recall that statement being made.

Perhaps, but even if the angle was increased to a mere 80 degrees, it'd alleviate most of the problem. As it stands now, there's just no good reason for it to be left in this state, and I can't think why anyone thought this would be a good way to do it.

Mhh I think I remember an old DOS/WIndows 95 game called Descent with full 360 degree rotation, banking, rolling, you name it :p
Shouldn't be that hard. And for the noobies it had automatic angle correction.

But seriously, if full 3D movement would be too hard for the noobs, create in fact an option to keep the 'old' movement possible, like they do now with the new Shooter mode which is 'Optional'. Too bad if its a limitation and unfair, but there is always the option....