Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 PvP Unbalanced
06-18-2011, 09:21 PM
I understand the DEVs have a lot on their plate with the new seasons and all.



We see that these issues are in "discussion" currently, which eludes to that it's a *back-burner issue*, but to you DSTAHL I'd like ask how willing are you to strip the competitive portion out of a GAME just so the nostalgia of FaW and SS trumps everything in PvP? I have to ask is that good business sense?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
06-18-2011, 09:29 PM
And as a final say as a working man, I understand taking on gigantic tasks sucks. But I just have to say PvP is effed up. And nothing ever has gotten fixed by sugarcoating the problem. As business men I'm sure you can understand that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 3
06-18-2011, 10:04 PM
Yes, PvP is in a drastic need of a major overhaul. There is a limit of how much you can patch a problem before patching no longer holds. That time is now.
Lt. Commander
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# 4
06-18-2011, 10:07 PM
You know, it's really getting tiring hearing people bash certain Fleets (in particular, TSI) for the 'spamming' of skills that, despite significant issues with their implementation (many of which are currently being or scheduled to be addressed), are working precisely as they were originally intended by the Devs.

If a player or group of players are using skills that are genuinely 'broken' (read: mechanically NOT working as intended, and overpowered), then it is perfectly natural and, I would say, acceptable to call them out on it... And, more importantly, help the Devs to locate and solve the problem with the 'broken' mechanic or skill (ex. the Voldemort exploit, the old FAW DBB bug, etc.).

Is it more fun to play against a so-called 'clean' Fleet, because you last a little longer in combat, and might feel that you have a chance to be competitive? Probably, but who gets to decide what is 'clean'? Most of the top-tier PvP-focused fleets will 'police' themselves, particularly when something is officially declared to be 'broken', and avoid the use of these abilities or mechanics, until they are fixed.

One fact will never change, however, and that is that, in the absence of all other factors, the best team in PvP, will win... EVERY... TIME... There are a dozen factors that contribute to being the 'best team', but that is the penultimate conclusion, the team that is the 'best' will win every time.

The Fleets out there that are recognized as the best, whether it is TSI, QEW, Lore, WoG/SoG, EMS, etc. (No, that is not an all-inclusive list. ), are not the best because they use 'broken' mechanics, they are the best because they work together; they are intimately familiar with each other's builds and playing styles; they understand the mechanics of the game, better than anyone, and find combinations that are powerful; and they put in the time practicing, always looking to get better. Is a FAW/SS-heavy team difficult to overcome? Absolutely... If it's a team that really knows what they are doing (TSI, for example), it might be impossible for a less-skilled team to overcome, but even in the face of abilities that probably are a little more powerful than any comparable alternatives, the final results are always more dependent on the quality of their teamwork, rather than the strength of their builds.

To hate losing is absolutely understandable and absolutely okay, but it should motivate you to get better, not to complain that you were beaten by a better team (Note: this is not directed at the OP, specifically, but in a general sense...). I know that I am always looking for ways to improve both my builds and my playing ability (both for myself, and in a team), and when I get defeated by a superior opponent, I try to understand how and why they beat me, rather than getting upset 'that' they beat me. My goal in every PvP match is to learn something that I didn't know before, and if you take this to heart, I think that you'll find that PvP is a much more enjoyable experience, even when you're being beaten.

As for the complaints about those certain Fleets, especially TSI, QEW, or any of the other top-tier Fleets, you only do a disservice to yourself by complaining about what they do. Instead, the next time that you get curb-stomped by an opponent, ask someone on there team "What do you guys do differently than we do, that makes you so effective?"... I have a lot of respect for the guys from those top-tier Fleets, they're all better players than I am, and any time that I have the chance to learn from them, it's a great thing... More importantly, in most cases, I know that they're willing to help and offer advice, but all you have to do is ask...

Respectfully,
-Big Red



Full disclosure: I neither am, nor have I ever been a member of TSI (they're about three leagues above my ability ), but I respect their abilities and don't believe that they deserve the criticism that they receive on a regular basis.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
06-18-2011, 10:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaos1337 View Post
And as a final say as a working man, I understand taking on gigantic tasks sucks. But I just have to say PvP is effed up. And nothing ever has gotten fixed but sugarcoating the problem. As business men I'm sure you can understand that.
well ill get an infraction for this but i see the people like yoru self complaining about the stuff u your self use. i liked how you stupidly put tsi's name up there and call them dirty. well sir you can grow the f up. working man? The working man doesint cry on the fourms because he lost a fight. he gets back in there and shoots them in the face. Maybe your style is to spawn camp in kerret. all the pros go there.
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# 6
06-18-2011, 11:59 PM
Qew does not use FAW, SS III, or any other cheese skills, nor have we ever. We agree completely with the original post. Unfortunately teams are not called out for their actions that are ruining the game and causing people to leave in game, and doing so on here will get you reported.
Lt. Commander
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# 7
06-19-2011, 12:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagles View Post
Qew does not use FAW, SS III, or any other cheese skills, nor have we ever. We agree completely with the original post. Unfortunately teams are not called out for their actions that are ruining the game and causing people to leave in game, and doing so on here will get you reported.
This man has said it well.

I don't like cheese.


...wait, I do like cheese. Just not in-game chee- ah, you get what I mean!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
06-19-2011, 12:19 AM
AFAIK, TSI is not using Scramble Sensors or FAW anymore either, in reaction to complains. They still win their matches, though. I suppose they should just ban Era.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
06-19-2011, 12:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
AFAIK, TSI is not using Scramble Sensors or FAW anymore either, in reaction to complains. They still win their matches, though. I suppose they should just ban Era.
TSI as of yesterday still had members running around with FAW 1 2 and 3... and SS 1 2 and 3 (granted not really broken). Perhaps they did change something today, beats me.

Ya Nerf Era lol.
Honestly Era and Rocks are 2 of the better players in the game... I know they do well no matter the setup. Having said that fleets that push broken mechanics and use straight out exploits, well they get called out I guess.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
06-19-2011, 12:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagles View Post
Qew does not use FAW, SS III, or any other cheese skills, nor have we ever. We agree completely with the original post. Unfortunately teams are not called out for their actions that are ruining the game and causing people to leave in game, and doing so on here will get you reported.
I apologize if I inadvertently implied that QEW was using the OP's specific example of 'cheese' skills, that was not my intent, in fact, on the occasions that I have faced any members of QEW, I have always found you to be exemplary in your choice of builds, and staying away from the 'questionable' powers (whatever the current 'problem child' happens to be), and I have nothing but the utmost respect for that.

My point was more that complaining about the use or abuse of certain skills, by certain individuals or groups (some of which are complained about on a regular basis), is doing nothing to solve the underlying, fundamental problems with balance in PvP.

On the flip side, the use or abuse of these 'questionable' (or, in the case of some skills, 'broken') skills is incredibly poor sportsmanship, and does only serve to drive people away from PvP. The end result of that will be dead PvP, wherein the only participants are those that exploit 'questionable/broken' mechanics and AFK Emblem farmers, which is no fun for anyone.

In the end, time spent either figuring out how to abuse abilities in-game or to complain about those that do, here on the Forums, is time that would be better spent offering feedback and constructive input in fixing and improving the game's mechanics, so that all of us that enjoy PvP might benefit.

Again, I apologize if I made any implications about who does or does not use the tactics described by the OP, I merely was aiming for the conclusion that we, as a Community, do ourselves a disservice by bickering and finger-pointing, instead of getting to the heart of the problem, and helping to rectify them.

-Big Red
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