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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
07-05-2011, 04:14 AM
take the slots away from the people that make 1 clicks, and give them to the people that make quality stuff.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
07-05-2011, 06:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnBludd View Post
take the slots away from the people that make 1 clicks, and give them to the people that make quality stuff.
Although I would likely agree with your assessment, I imagine that it is not easy from a developer standpoint
to do it. I have friends that have offered to "Donate" their unused slots to me, but that would require account
tampering from the developer in some fashion I imagine. I cannot think that it would be as easy as "black & white" to do it, so I don't think we will see it happen. The mission slots are a game default the way I see it, and to be able to manipulate them from one to another might be a big undertaking. The only alternative short term
I see would be to either sell slots in the C-store or add a couple to all eligible accounts in a patch, which as an
author, I would like to see the latter to avoid spending any additional cash. Perhaps a type of reward system as
some have suggested would be nice to "unlock" additional slots when certain criterias are met.
I will be combining 2 of my episodes and summarizing certain aspects of it in hope of keeping an additional one available so I do not run out myself. As I get closer to the limit, I find myself wondering what I will do when the time comes for a new story and I find myself out of slots.

As a career member with 3 VA's and a handful of other toons, the Foundry enabled STO to become a whole new game experience for me, and it gave me the needed distraction from the content issue with both Authoring and playing UGC. When the well runs dry for some of the talented mission creators, I wonder how long the distraction will continue when we continue to see the same missions and nothing new that peaks our interests short of the "shoot em ups" and "1 clicks".
It could be a disheartening day indeed.

I only can wish this were addressed sooner as the OP wrote, but I will have to find a way to make do with what I have as I still love the game and cannot imagine that opinion changing too much.


Duke-of-Rock
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
07-05-2011, 07:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkfat View Post
Jack Emmert promised us more slots.
True, we were promised slots, but we weren't promised when and how they'd be given.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkfat View Post
In the meantime, we've seen the Foundry sink lower and lower in the priority pool.
I wouldn't say that as Cryptic has their people working on the Foundry from more than one angle. There's the Foundry as we see it in STO and then there's the Foundry as it's going to be viewed from NWO. This however doesn't mean we'll see the fruits of Cryptic's labor right away, but it doesn't mean that the Foundry is at the bottom of the priority pool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkfat View Post
You may see caution and wise planning here. I see BS.
You know what? Let's assume you're right for even a moment. What makes you think they'd even care about your cries of indignation if they truly disrespect the community of Foundry users (both authors and players) anyway?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
07-05-2011, 09:01 AM
I have another idea, although I'm sure it is too complicated to be implemented:

Trading slots.

There are a lot of players who don't make UGC and probably never will. There are even players who want the Foundry to be turned off (which I will never understand). If they could sell their Foundry slots for Energy credits (maybe on the exchange or a special UI for slot trading), they'd be happy to make an easy buck and our authors wouldn't run out of slots. The best thing with this idea is, that you don't need more resources for mission slots in the near future, because the slots are just being relocated. The overall count of slots would always stay the same. If there is a shortage of slots some time, the devs could just give every player another set of one or two slots for free to refill the pool.

I don't know if this is even possible, because slots are no items but account "functions". But it could be a possible solution.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
07-05-2011, 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkfat View Post
I will try very hard to be constructive here, but this is frustrating and maddening.

Devs, since long before the Foundry went to Holodeck, the community of authors has been asking about slots, and when we'll be able to get more than the limited amount given to us. This has been one of the most pressing issues for many authors, especially those who aim to be long-term contributors of community-authored-content. For many, there is simply no point in investing so much time and energy into doing something that ultimately cuts itself off.

We asked if you had a gameplan during the first conference call. We asked if you had a gameplan in subsequent Q&A's and interviews. We've been begging that you make a decision, implement a system, and give us some way to purchase or earn additional slots. Dozens and dozens of authors have posted their ideas for how to do it, which we hoped were debated and tossed around.

Now, at least nine months since we've been begging you guys to make a decision and come up with a gameplan, you give us this in the latest Ask Cryptic:



I could say this more strongly, but I won't:

What you're doing here involves a noticeable amount of disrespect to the Foundry community and those authors who've done so much for your game and the broader STO community. You owe them more than this. The time to make a decision and implement a system has past. It should have already happened.

It seems tremendously disrespectful to the Foundry community. At the very least, it shows indifference to our long-term concerns.

We asked you to deal with this issue when the Foundry was in Beta. We asked you to make a decision, have a gameplan, implement a system, and do something so that we would be able to get more slots if we need them.

Instead, you apparently did nothing. You ignored the problem. You brushed aside our concerns. Now, you tell us maybe you'll come up with a plan in 4 or 5 months that will probably finally see the light of day 6 months later.

I don't know the technicalities involved here, but for pete's sake, sit down in a room for an hour, come up with a decision, and implement the gameplan. Make revisions along the way if needed. Do something, instead of telling some of us that we can't do anything for the next 6 months. At least, put some slots in the c-store. As insulting as that is to the Foundry community, at least it would be doing something instead of ignoring the problem.

Please. We need action in place of PR answers with soonish (tm). We deserve to be treated with more respect here.

Thanks.
Disrespectful? As a Foundry autjhor, I couldn't disagree more with your assementr of Cryptic's answer somehow being disrespectful to the Foundry authoring community. Also, the Foundry had only been fully active on Tribble since December 2009; and it wasn't released to Holodeck until March 2009 - so I don't know where you get the "9 month" figure. The "gameplan" was to get teh Foundry up and running (which they have) - and then evaluate performance and expand when possible. - that's been the gameplan since Foundry beta (wghich I was also a part of.)

I understand people want more story craetion slots - but calling the Dev's response 'disrespectfl' because they want to make sure the their hardware and server farm can handle the load of increasing the number of story slots as they continue to expand the functions of teh Foundry (just look at wjat's in the Foundry on Tribble atm)

IMO -your OP is in VERY bad form.

I fully support a request for expansion of slots (including allowwing authors who so choose to perhaps purchase them in teh C-Store) - or maybe allowing "Dev Spolit" missions (with the author's approval) to be permanently added to the Foundry list - and freeing up the Foundry slot it held fior the author (but a consequence of tyhis would mean it's locked in the form it was when choosen; and said author could no longer edit it.)

Also, the Foundry is ONE aspect of the STO MMO (and yes, it's a major one to a subset of the playerbase - myself included) ; but it's not the only thing the Devs have to balance and worry about. With season 4; they are in the process of changing the way a major base element works (Ground Combat); as well as adding a whole new game system (The Duty Officer System) - both of which will add more load to the game server hardware.


So, just because the Devs are taking the time to evaluate the Foundrty's overall effect on system load woth all the other changes being done for the Season 4 Update before making a decision on extra Foundry story slots for Foundry authors - it DOESN'T MEAN they are in any way "disrespecting the Foundry author community"... it means they're being prudent in making sure they can deliver a good gameplay experience (for Foundry authors and non-authors alike); BEFORE making such a decision, That's just good development strategy as it would be worse if they just added more slots, and had to rollback that decision because of unexpected l,oad or storage issues (meaning some authors may loose work they put in, etc.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
07-05-2011, 10:19 AM
Quote:
Also, the Foundry had only been fully active on Tribble since December 2009; and it wasn't released to Holodeck until March 2009 - so I don't know where you get the "9 month" figure.
The discussion about slots began before closed beta, when a dev revealed that there would be a limited number of slots. I think that happened in Sept. or Oct. The discussion continued during closed beta, when the closed beta testers found out that we were limited to 5 slots.

There was an outcry and many requests for a gameplan and a system, along with many ideas volunteered to help the devs brainstorm. So, the debate predates even closed beta.

Quote:
So, just because the Devs are taking the time to evaluate the Foundrty's overall effect on system load woth all the other changes being done for the Season 4 Update before making a decision on extra Foundry story slots for Foundry authors - it DOESN'T MEAN they are in any way "disrespecting the Foundry author community"... it means they're being prudent in making sure they can deliver a good gameplay experience (for Foundry authors and non-authors alike); BEFORE making such a decision, That's just good development strategy as it would be worse if they just added more slots, and had to rollback that decision because of unexpected l,oad or storage issues (meaning some authors may loose work they put in, etc.)
Respectfully, I disagree here. From the beginning, many of us have voiced our concerns about slots, indicating to the devs that it would become a potential problem. Repeatedly, we received statements about internal ongoing discussions. They indicated that it was a problem that they recognized and were working to resolve with a solution that may or may not involve the c-store.

There was no indication that authors might have to wait a year for more slots.

Also, the justification for needing additional info, IMO, is pretty weak. First, they have months of data to go on. Secondly, if they want reliable info on how additional slots might affect the server, the easiest solution is to test and observe, right?

The reason that I think it's disrespectful is pretty simple. They apparently ignored our concerns, minimized the negatives, and pushed the problem far off into the future, just as the Foundry got pushed off to a distant other game.

Now, we have several great authors who are running out of slots or are already out of slots. These authors haves spent months adding content during a content-drought for the most part. They've been a workforce of volunteer devs.

While Cryptic has done quite a few nice things to reward some authors, they now seem pretty much indifferent as to whether or not these authors will continue to add content to the game.

Internal discussion could be something like this: "They can just create a new account, right?" "They can just delete old missions, right?" "That's not our department anymore. Hopefully, the Foundry team will think of something." "We have new priorities."

That is pure speculation on my part, of course.

It still comes down to the fact that we've been asking for a gameplan and a solution since before the Foundry went into closed beta. The Ask Cryptic response indicates no progress, while it also implies indifference.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
07-05-2011, 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkfat View Post
Also, the justification for needing additional info, IMO, is pretty weak. First, they have months of data to go on. Secondly, if they want reliable info on how additional slots might affect the server, the easiest solution is to test and observe, right?
Really? The Season 4 Ground Combat changes and Doff system were on Tribble for the past 5 months? My point? DStahl's answer took into account what's coming for Season 4 (and probably the Foundry changes that are also on Tribble). And, they've been working on them since Serason 3 launched - in addition to addiing some more functionality to the Foundry too (Dialog Trees and the ability to Hide /Unhide objects, along with some other tweaks.)

Also, based on their Tribble and Season 3 observations, that's where the 8 slot limit came from.

Quote:
The reason that I think it's disrespectful is pretty simple. They apparently ignored our concerns, minimized the negatives, and pushed the problem far off into the future, just as the Foundry got pushed off to a distant other game.
What concerns have they igonored? Since March they added dialogue trees, triggers, ability to hide/unhide objects; and there's 'snap to' and other Foundry functionality in the Season 4 update. Sorry, but I don't see how the Foundry has been totally ignored by the Dev tream. Also, the fact was (and still is) - the main Foundry tool is being developed for the Cryptic upcoming NeverWinter MMOG. Yes, the Cryoptic STO DEvs are updatting and adding to the STO version of the Foundry as new functionality is developed and deemed ready by the NeverWinter team (most likely) - BUT, just because (with all the new chages and updates to the game coming with Season 4); they want to see the effect on server load, hardware, etc; before they either add Foundry author slots to accounts directly; or announce their plan (if any) to allow players to acquire/purchase mopre slots - I don't see how you infer that means it's "far

Quote:
Now, we have several great authors who are running out of slots or are already out of slots. These authors haves spent months adding content during a content-drought for the most part. They've been a workforce of volunteer devs.
And their work is most likely appreciated (and I say that because I cannot speak to how the Devs see the work done in the Foundry overall). But lets say we do what's been suggested by some in this very tread in te interim; and TAKE slots from players that have either been banned from authoring in the Foundry; or those that have not made use of their slots?

Who makes the decision of:

1) Which authors are the recipient of these slots. (And given that tastes can vary, some people consider 'great' authors by some players, may not be considered 'great authors' by others. - any rating is sunbjective. If you just go by "The most 5 strar ratings"; we get into the possibility of cliques 'voting up' friwends, etc; and I think you'd eventually see some player backlash and turmoil over it.

2) What happens if someone who hadn't made use of their slots (and had them re-allocated) suddenly deciides they want to start making Foundry missions, and they are also suddenly considered a good author?

Quote:
While Cryptic has done quite a few nice things to reward some authors, they now seem pretty much indifferent as to whether or not these authors will continue to add content to the game. Internal discussion could be something like this: "They can just create a new account, right?" "They can just delete old missions, right?" "That's not our department anymore. Hopefully, the Foundry team will think of something." "We have new priorities."

That is pure speculation on my part, of course.
Yes, it is - may be it jiust is that they want some more data on the major changes in Season 4 before they make a further decision <--- Anything other then what DStahl stated is indeed specullation.

Quote:
It still comes down to the fact that we've been asking for a gameplan and a solution since before the Foundry went into closed beta. The Ask Cryptic response indicates no progress, while it also implies indifference.
So, in other words, you wanted a soplution BEFORE they had a chance to do ANY data mining on Holodeck; and are now feeling disrespected because they want to do more data mining post Season 4 Update release?

IMO - it sounds like a few members of the Playerbase demeaning and disrespecting the Dev team and the work that Team has done to get the Foundry working and keep it working. (And believe me, if the Devs added more Foundry authoring slots overall and that caused a system wide performance degredation to general gameplay AND Foundry authoring; what kind of player posts would occur forum wide by Foundry authors and non-foundry authors alike?)

Again, I'm with you in wanting to see methods by which more Foundry authoring slots can be awarded, earned, purchased for a players account, etc. What I disagree with is your idea that because you feel they haven't made this the #1 Dev priority in STO; or that because they want to further evaluate STO Server/game performance before they implement one or more of these methods; that they are somehow 'disrespecting' the Foundry authoring commiunity.

But, I'll leave it at that as I don't think we're going to change each others minds. You, as a Foundry author feel disrespected by the STO Dev team. I as a Foundry author do not - and am more then willing to see what they ultimately do and decide on with regard to Foundry authoring slots.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
07-05-2011, 01:06 PM
devs r busy with season 4, would u rather have another C-Store item or season 4? New slots will be like 240 a pop in the C-Store, foundry mish's take up alot of space!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
07-05-2011, 01:50 PM
Sigh, posting when mad is not a good idea...

I'll just stop, I guess. It's disappointing and frustrating. Enough said.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
07-07-2011, 02:09 PM
First and foremost, thank you Kirkfat for all you do for the Foundry community!!!!

Secondly, while the answer isn't quite what I was hoping for, I must say, I'm floored that my question was actually answered. Numerous posts on the board left unanswered from myself and others regarding the "slot" question, and now we have a "ballpark" answer..I won't hold my breath, but time will tell....

As far as "disrepect" is concerned, I can say as a customer I do feel a bit disrespected, as none of the posts on this board regarding slots were answered, none of the pm's etc..Finally when I "Ask Cryptic", I get an answer... As a customer I expect a bit more than that for a product I have supported financially and creatively, and continue to support via the c-store.

We can all sit here and post and speculate what is, what will be etc..but the simple fact is, WE are the customers and or supporters! Whether it's one, ten or one thousand of us... This is what we want or would like to see. The company would be wise to take heed and make the necessary changes to their infrastructure to support it. It's just good business...Whether it's money, knowledge, infrastructure, whatever, not my/our concern. I've bought a product from a company I believed knew what they were doing, had the resources to improve it and or support it, and knew that maintaining and communicating with their customer base was a good thing.

I'm just as realistic as the next man/woman and know that most things take time. However, when you've had a testing platform, used it, and still make excuses as to why something is or isn't happening, in my opinion, not good enough...Step up to the plate....
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