Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 61
07-10-2011, 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpb531 View Post
I've read through thris thread a number of others regarding the varying opinions on Ground Combat 2.0, which tend to fall either on the side of "Still too easy" or "OMGWTFBBQ I KEEP DYING". I am firmly in the latter camp, and before someone from the former comes around and tries to tell me, "Oh, just get used to it" or "You're doing it wrong", please don't and no I'm not not.

The fundamental problem in a game like STO or any other MMO is what the first M in MMO stands for: Massively. Given the diverse nature of the player base, there is no way that cryptic will be able to kee everyone happy. The hardcore KDF PvP faction will always have their beefs. The people who want to play KDF but don't like PvP will always beef about the lack of PvE, and the PvP KDF will beef about the non PvP KDF not knowing how to PvP. The hardcore role players will find something to beef about that's breaking their immersion, and even if cyptic gifts us with a TOS T5 Connie refit, someone will have a beef about the way it gifted to us.

This is just the latest issue to pop up. Did I have universal love for ground combat 1.0? No. It was deadly dull boring button mashing, in my mind, which ground combat 2.0 is certainly not. It needed something to liven it up. Making normal feel like elite, (to me) isn't the answer either. I'm a casual player. I don't want to have to spend three days tweaking my toons in order to survive ground combat during normal game play. The game should not make me do so. What it should do is have the ability to make me do so, but only if I choose. Ergo, the difficulty slider. I leave it on normal for a reason - I like that game doesn't require me to work to hard to get what I want out of it.

Everyone wants to play the game a ceratin way. The way I like to play (and, it would seem, a lot of others) is now broken so that it plays the way others want to. I expect that, in fairly short order, cryptic will go through and rebalance things, at least on the normal level so that the casual player like me is mollified and then the inevitable howls of protest will ensue from some other party.

Just remember one thing in the give and take here on the forums: mind Wheaton's law and don't be a ****.

Cheers.
See, this is where the disconnect lies.

I'm not optimized by any means. My BOs weapons and skill setup were described earlier, as was my personal weapon/gear/skills setup. My BOs are also using white Mk X shields and armor.

I'm not using any super strategy. I'm not micromanaging my BOs. I'm not even using all of my skills. I'm playing as casually as I possibly can and I'm still not dying on Elite.

I honestly have no idea why other people aren't fairing the same way. I'm not doing anything that the most casual of casual players would not do. I'm set up as an RP captain, with phaser pistols on my BOs and in my primary weapon slot. The only 'optimization' of my BO's skills is making sure I have one Medical Tricorder, one Vascular Regenerator and two Shield Recharges. I'm specced into my kit, yes, but that's not optional anymore; as well, people seem to be specced into their kits and not doing well, so there must be soemthing else here.

I've double and triple checked, my missions are all Elite. I haven't been hit by the difficulty bug.

Something is up here.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 62
07-10-2011, 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthrider View Post
See, this is where the disconnect lies.

I'm not optimized by any means. My BOs weapons and skill setup were described earlier, as was my personal weapon/gear/skills setup. My BOs are also using white Mk X shields and armor.

I'm not using any super strategy. I'm not micromanaging my BOs. I'm not even using all of my skills. I'm playing as casually as I possibly can and I'm still not dying on Elite.

I honestly have no idea why other people aren't fairing the same way. I'm not doing anything that the most casual of casual players would not do. I'm set up as an RP captain, with phaser pistols on my BOs and in my primary weapon slot. The only 'optimization' of my BO's skills is making sure I have one Medical Tricorder, one Vascular Regenerator and two Shield Recharges. I'm specced into my kit, yes, but that's not optional anymore; as well, people seem to be specced into their kits and not doing well, so there must be soemthing else here.

I've double and triple checked, my missions are all Elite. I haven't been hit by the difficulty bug.

Something is up here.
What are you fighting and what are they fighting?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 63
07-10-2011, 01:37 PM
The Chicxulub Impact that is Ground 2.0 has arrived!

The days of running all one type of armor, one type of BO and one type of weapon are over. Time to evolve or die

Many props to AA for giving his insights and putting so much hard work into covering this area. Thanks again, AA.




This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Atari Community Rules and Policies ~WishStone
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 64
07-10-2011, 01:51 PM
You know, I've been thinking about this, and this may be way off, but what if we are having a 'level-shift' problem here with some players. what I've noticed is that the exchange is having a problem with rarity and rank items being in the wrong 'level area', as I kept seeing Very Rare items in the Rare section, Rare in Uncommon. (I saw this while looking for Tribbles to fill out what was listed for each boff type.

Players also complain about not being able to slot their boffs in ship stations as well, or not able to equip items due to possibly this very same thing. PvE and PvP queues not able to be entered, might have something to do with this, though this as been a historic problem anyway.

This may be pointless conjecture, but what if, somehow in the game code for many players, if not all, that mob damage was also tied to this problem. The devs during the Tribble test weekend, used boss mob types that were set at nine levels above VA1 level. (Probably more for less ranked players that participated, if they so chose.) They also used unkillable Unidine (by mistake I presume,) on Risa last weekend. What if elements of these bits somehow 'leaked' into the came code for ground mob damage during play. I would probably wave this off, but given how seriously buggy a lot of things are in S4 currently, I won't dismiss this either at present.

Course I also did a Gorn encounter in B'tran with two Medics, A Turret tree, and a Shield as my boffs (the Medics were Reman and Orion-Ambassador reward, the Turret an Aenar engineer,) the Shield was one of my boffs from a Commander level pickup, so nothing truly remarkable, and have the Breen tac boff reward to use as Guardian in her place, to test with. This was non-VA B'tran, so not at the optimal difficulty, and on Normal, and seemed to not have much problem with them, between the Mortars and rock throwing Gorn. This as a person that takes a couple extra seconds to be able to react t things, but also methodical with prepping the battlefield (if simplistic, laying Kit mines and bombs, boff turrets, so on.)

I think the point may be here, is bugs might be causing more damage to some peeps that intended, but that if some of the recommendation in this thread are followed, we may be able to test in some fashion, whether we 'are' encountering this level-shift bug or something. I'll be posting further to see if other ground combat events are any harder or not for me.

Keep ya posted.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 65
07-10-2011, 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KazumaKat
What are you fighting and what are they fighting?
Elite Exploration missions, Elite Feature Episodes and Elite Borg Episodes (haven't spent much time in the STFs lately). Both Fed and Kling side.

My Kling is a Sci and set up differently than my Fed, but still not optimized by any stretch.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 66
07-10-2011, 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthrider View Post
Elite Exploration missions, Elite Feature Episodes and Elite Borg Episodes (haven't spent much time in the STFs lately). Both Fed and Kling side.

My Kling is a Sci and set up differently than my Fed, but still not optimized by any stretch.
And therein, I suspect, lies the difference. You're playing on elite level already are used to having to deal with the challenges implied. My suspicion is that the the changes GC2.0 pose to Normal level players (e.g. me) are much more significant than they pose to those playing on Elite level (e.g. you). The only time I played on Advanced or Elite level is when I was chasing the injuries accolades.

I'm old and slow. The new pace of combat, for example, is untenable to me. By the time I recognize there's a grenade inbound it's too late for me to dodge and I get one shotted. Constantly. Some folks may enjoy that, or are able to deal with it. I do not, and can not. Thus, for me, the new system is unworkable as is and means I either need to adapt or quit.

The former means taking a large section options away from me as it pertains to how I build my away teams and turns ground missions from one type of grind into another. The latter means I'm out all the money I've invested in STO. Neither is an attractive option for me. As such, I'm borrowing a phrase and Crying Nerf and letting fly the Dogs of Whine.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 67
07-10-2011, 05:07 PM
Actually, I played on Normal before S4.

I started playing Elite in S4 because Advanced and Normal were too easy.

And like i said, I'm *barely doing anything.* My typical strategy is "point, use weapons malfunction/fuse armor, shoot, remodulate if necessary, repeat."
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 68
07-10-2011, 06:45 PM
I'm in more or less the same camp as Stealthrider. I play in Shooter mode (though I only play on Normal), I use no tactics, and haven't changed anything about my build or teams from pre-season 4 and I rarely die (some boss fights have given me trouble, but the rest has been an absolute cakewalk). All I do to initiate a fight is toss a photon grenade, use target optics, then start firing at whoever I want while I let my Boffs fire at whoever they want. After a few seconds, all enemy mobs are dead. Borg, due to how slow they move, are even easier than before. I was taking out groups (yes, groups) of Borg on Tribble BY MYSELF. I purposefully left my Boffs behind just to see what I could do.

Things I've learned through experience:

1. For boss fights, don't bother focusing fire on the boss; you'll probably get wiped before you can kill him and then all the damage you did to him is reset. Instead, focus on the weakest mobs in the group first and remove the damage they can do. Chances are you can kill several of them before you get wiped, and they won't come back the next time. Continue working your way up the chain of command until the boss is left and then take him out. Once he's alone and there are five of you shooting at him, your group should have no trouble taking him out.

2. Tactical Boffs still suck somehow. They just don't do enough damage to be worth it.

3. Make sure you're specced for ground combat.

4. Make sure you bring along at least one medic and one shield healer on every away team. Having some consumables can help in a pinch, but truthfully, if you feel the need to use consumables in a fight, chances are they're just going to delay the inevitable for a few more seconds. Still, the few seconds they buy you might be enough time to take out an enemy or two.

5. Tight formations now equate to killboxes for any enemy group that has a grenade. Don't keep your team together; let them spread out.

6. Turrets and drones are still useful as targets for mobs. Don't be afraid to bring along a Boff that can summon them.

7. Security Escorts aren't as useful as before. They die fast and have too long a recharge timer.

8. Did I say to make sure you're specced for ground combat?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 69
07-10-2011, 08:20 PM
Disagree with #2. My melee specced Tactical BO gets more kills than I do. Lunge 3 and Lunge 1 together are quite powerful.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 70
07-11-2011, 02:20 AM
I hate the idea of being forced to take two healers on my away team to finish Normal mode without trouble. That is the sort of pidgeonholing I'd expect to be required of Elite mode, not the casual mode. Really creates a lot of limitations.
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