Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
07-08-2011, 02:37 AM
My experience is mostly from PVE with ablative, and then typically when playing on advanced or elite modes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
07-08-2011, 02:46 AM
Why extreme ? most will put 125 aux in AA mode anyway. But ok, lets say 75.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
07-08-2011, 03:46 AM
For me, the biggest problem with AA is not the recharge time but the time it takes for the armor to be applied since you press the button. The animation is cool, but in PVP when your shields are down you will probably die in 1-2 seconds. It would be great if AA could be applied instantly (as miracle worker does) or at least faster.

If AA is supposed to be an emergency power, it needs to be useful to solve the emergency.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
07-08-2011, 04:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redleader View Post
For me, the biggest problem with AA is not the recharge time but the time it takes for the armor to be applied since you press the button. The animation is cool, but in PVP when your shields are down you will probably die in 1-2 seconds. It would be great if AA could be applied instantly (as miracle worker does) or at least faster.

If AA is supposed to be an emergency power, it needs to be useful to solve the emergency.
Yes yes abso-friggin-lutely YES.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
07-08-2011, 04:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrshran View Post
The current time is close to perfect from my experiences. Its old recharge time made it close to useless but the 3 minutes means that it is very useful as an emergency power or as a way to sap the enemy team's alphas safely at the beginning of an engagement (if they are not paying attention obviously). 15 seconds every 3 minutes also stops it being a power you can rely on and makes it something used when your team makes a mistake and start being pressured too much.

Further, the ease with which it can be cancelled (anything that takes aux offline) means that a low-ish recharge time is needed to make it anything more than a gimik. However, the power is very strong so it cannot be spammable and should not save you from every alpha the enemy makes. For this reason i feel 3 minutes is around where it should be as it allows the main alpha powers to have 2 or 3 cycles for every 1 of ablative's but still lets you use the power without worrying whether it'll be available when you need it.

Used well the current ablative can save you and your team by easing pressure but reducing the cooldown could lead to the power being overpowered by allowing it to be available any time 2 or 3 ships decide to want you dead. I will say it works far far better in PvP than in PvE, where i hardly ever use it as it reduces damage and does not help me advance the fight.

EDIT: currently ablative is very much a team power and probably always will be. It makes you n incredibly tough tank at the expense of your main weapons and damage output. In a team setting this is very powerful and can turn the tide of a battle, solo: it simply extens the engagement and allows you breathing space. I feel that this is fine and the current time/values fulfil this goal very well.

QFT. I think it is pretty much perfect.

I have to disagree with everyone else who thinks it is too long duration or too short cooldown. This is to my fellow PVPers mostly.

Remember when it was 30s duration with a 5m cooldown? 30s of sheer awesomeness. It was laughable how long it lasted, and people duly complained. It was cut clean in half, and now lasts a mere 15s, but without an equal cut in cooldown.

As a user of AA, 15s is however tolerable. As an attacker, it is MUCH more reasonable than 30s. When it was 30s as a user, with 5m cooldown, I BARELY even got to use it, the countdown was ludicrous, one of the longest in game. As an attacker, it just made Intrepid's far too strong. Cryptic did a great job of making the skill last almost as long over the course of 5 minutes, but splitting it into two uses.

Honestly, 3 minutes is a LONG time in many PvP matches. Spare a though for those who don't get involved in 30m arena matches, and end up only using said skill once the whole game.

And come on now, AA is far from difficult to clear. Back when it was uber popular, so was PSW, and PSW STILL is. I cannot count the number of times I have had my AA knocked off, and left with no shields for waaay too long. And to draw in another point, do you know how frustrating it is to use a skill that is so easy to kill, but you then have to wait another 5 mins before you can even try???

The biggest issue for me is that there is about 2 seconds either side of AA in which you become VERY vulnerable. It is practically not even worth using unless you still have shields. If you wait till your shields are gone, you will likely die before armour engages.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
07-08-2011, 05:34 AM
The reality is that whatever the duration/cooldown of AA is, it's still a tool the intrepid can use to save itself that the RSV and DSSV do not have, and it's not like the intrepid doesn't have the same normal tanking/healing ability as those other two ships. Ablative is easily the best special ability in the game and so will always be a bit OP no matter it's uptime/downtime. Personally I think the current 15s duration is the highest it should be, and the cooldown is the lowest it should go, it could be higher honestly. It can be a "get out of jail free" card, a second chance ability that no other ship has.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
07-08-2011, 05:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
Hey guys,

What is your opinion of what the recharge time should be for the Intrepid's Ablative Armor ability?

For reference, it currently is set at 3 minutes.

screw the cooldown!

i vote for:
COMPLETE REVAMP of the Ablative Armor Mode into an ON/OFF toggle switch!




- Prometheus MVAM, is a on/off toggle
- Galaxy-Refit Saucer Seperation, is a on/off toggle
- Defiant-Cloak, is a on/off toggle
- D'Kyr shuttle, is an on/off toggle
- Guramba Siege Destroyer Siege Mode, on/off toggle !
- B'Rel retrofit battle cloak thingy, toggle!
...

why are these things able to stay on longer then a few seconds?
Because those special abilities look and feel AWESOME and i want to watch at them the whole time i play! (especially the Ablative Armor is an awesome visual effect!)

Almost all special abilities of Endgame Refit ships have been ON/OFF toggle switches.

But the Intrepid gets a crappy 15 second click-thingy with a cooldown that takes forever?


the current 15 second timer isn't even canon:

Voyager NEVER would have made it through her final episode alive if the Armor would have dropped after a few seconds!


for the record:
i dont even CARE what the ability does right now.
whatever it does right now, forget it and do something different with it....
like dropping shields while active but doubling the ships base HP by twice... or whatever.

That Ablative Armor is only a *clickable* 15 second thingy makes the Intrepid-Refit completely unappealing to me and i don't even want to use it over any other Ship because of that very reason.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
07-08-2011, 05:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock_Monster View Post
The reality is that whatever the duration/cooldown of AA is, it's still a tool the intrepid can use to save itself that the RSV and DSSV do not have, and it's not like the intrepid doesn't have the same normal tanking/healing ability as those other two ships. Ablative is easily the best special ability in the game and so will always be a bit OP no matter it's uptime/downtime. Personally I think the current 15s duration is the highest it should be, and the cooldown is the lowest it should go, it could be higher honestly. It can be a "get out of jail free" card, a second chance ability that no other ship has.
This is probably true. Ablative Armor is basically like an extra Lt.Cmdr BO power (going by cooldown and effect, that's where I would settle it probably). the other two ships just get an extra console.

---

But aside from that:

In PvE, a long duration causes the problem it will not be available for every fight. If you take the typical Explore Mission with its Kill 5 objective, it means you will either idle around to wait until the power comes back (if the duration is longer), or you can use it every fight. If you can use it only occassionally, that means the enemy groups are never really tough enough that you would need the power - so it's irrelevant. If you use it every combat, it must be balanced to not be too strong..

In PvP, a power like Ablative Armor is part of a "defensive rotation" of all your defensive options as a player usually.

A typical rotation when under (strong) fire would be something like
  1. You activate resistance buffs to soften the enemy blows and last a while.
  2. You recover damage using healing powers.
  3. With healing and potentially resistance buffs exhausted, you switch on Ablative Armor.
  4. After AA ends, you will probably have regained a few of your defensive buffs and can use them now again. There are now 3 possibilities basically
    1. You're healing is now insufficient and you eventually get destroyed. (but the time you survived is time your allies weren't subject to damage and mighthave scored their own kills.
    2. Your healing power is suffiicent now, possibly because enemies have given up, deeming you too tough to break - or simply being driven off by your allies
    3. Your healing power is insuffiicent, but your allies have caught up and will now help you stay alive.

Typically, this rotation is slightly more complex, as powers like Reverse Shield Polarity or Captain abilities like Miracle Worker, Rotate Shield Frequency, Dampening Field or Science Fleet might be used as well. (This basically means you basically repeat step 1 and 2 after step 3,but at step 3, you use a different long-recharge power than the first time.

And of course, your enemy will try to break these heal rotation - either by simply dealing even more than you can handle at any of these steps, or by cutting one of these steps shorter with SNBs or Stuns, or delay your reaction time with Stuns and Scramble Sensors.

But basically, one of the reason that PvPers find AA useful and sometimes OP is because it works as part of such a healing rotation. In PvP, you keep engaged to an enemy longer, and to still have an ace up your sleeve if all your "normal" options are exhausted, it can significantly increase your survivability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3R0B4NG
i vote for:
COMPLETE REVAMP of the Ablative Armor Mode into an ON/OFF toggle switch!
That would be an interesting option: Something like Ablative Armor adds +200 % hit points, and when your health is ever reduced below 33 %, you lose the Armor and cannot activate it again until a recharge timer is exhausted.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
07-08-2011, 06:20 AM
In PvE I've only ever used it once and don't really see a need to use it. As a VA Science Officer, I've got plenty of other generally more useful "emergency use" powers filling up my trays. If I get a chance to spam a bunch of those, I normally don't die, period.

PvP would be a whole other ball of wax, of course.

Thing is, I don't see it useful as a damage soak in PvP. Anyone who recognizes it is simply going to concentrate fire elsewhere, which means bad news for the rest of your team and also for you once AA has run out and they can concentrate on you again.

As it stands, AA should be used as one part of a tactical solution. If it's being used only as a "Use In Emergency" button, then it's only a 15 second respite for getting back up to fighting trim and the cooldown means you don't get to use it that often. That's not a bad thing, but couldn't it be used more effectively? I can think of some other possibilities for temporary invulnerability that might actually give you an advantage instead of just removing disadvantages.

I'll have to play around with some tactics if I get a chance.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
07-08-2011, 06:54 AM
Isn't Ablative armor supposed to be, er, ablative?
According to teh Wikipedia
link ablative armor
Quote:
-Ablative armor is armor designed to negate damage by itself being damaged or destroyed through the process of ablation. In contemporary spacecraft, ablative plating is most frequently seen as an ablative heat shield for a vehicle that must enter atmosphere from orbit, such as on nuclear warheads, or space vehicles like the Mars Pathfinder probe. The idea is also commonly encountered in science fiction
.
so instead of invulnerability, why not give the armor a hull point value, after which its gone until the cool down is over? you know, make it ablative?,instead of Godmode
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