Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
07-11-2011, 08:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felderburg View Post
True enough. But there should still be a place for people who don't have the time/devotion to build or join a fleet that regularly PvPs. I'm not saying PvP should put up with the "Kirks" that charge in, to heck with teamwork - I mean people who like GPvP, and regularly PUG it up. There should still be a place for the more "casual" players to play and enjoy PvP, without getting frustrated into leaving.
That would be good for everyone; help out the PvEers who are trying out PvP only to get roflstomped by premades.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
07-11-2011, 08:58 AM
Ground pvp is the only place where you can kill Era :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
07-11-2011, 09:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
And this focus on team play by Cryptic has not encouraged players to use teamwork, it just made real teams tougher.
QFT. I think meaningful PvP will encourage the teamwork in PvP. While all the balancing around team mentality gets you what we have now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
07-11-2011, 10:45 AM
I've only had the chance to play one PvP ground match so far...holy @#%$!

My initial impression...double my shields and hp in PvP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
07-11-2011, 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felderburg View Post
True enough. But there should still be a place for people who don't have the time/devotion to build or join a fleet that regularly PvPs. I'm not saying PvP should put up with the "Kirks" that charge in, to heck with teamwork - I mean people who like GPvP, and regularly PUG it up. There should still be a place for the more "casual" players to play and enjoy PvP, without getting frustrated into leaving.
I think a big problem in PvP in general in STO, but Ground PvP specifically is that the number of players doing it regularly is too low. It can be nice to meet familiar faces in PvP, but you know when you meat a group of familiar faces always in this group that your chances as a PUG aren't great.

In a small community, it's more likely to have this happen. And while I like to "redefine" my personal "win" condition to something like "at least kill 1 of them" or "at last bring him to 50 %" or something like that, at some point it will probably become frustrating.

I think one big aspect you can do as a PuGger - and it's not easy for me to do it, I am not the guy for it normally - is to take charge and try to organize the PuG. Call targets ,suggest tactics. The biggest challenge in PvP is always that there is so little time to do this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
Ground pvp is the only place where you can kill Era :p
It will get harder with every attempt? Is it really wise to keep killing Era?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
07-11-2011, 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
Ground pvp is the only place where you can kill Era :p
Yeah, that was fun. The shoes were now on the other feet.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 47
07-11-2011, 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felderburg View Post
There's got to be some sort of middle ground.

On the one hand, PvP has to be learned, like anything else. Take instruction (which most of the top GPvPers are more than willing to give) and practice.

On the other hand, it is REALLY frustrating to try to learn, then get destroyed every time. I've gotten better than I was, and I'm sure if I could dedicate insane amounts of time to practicing, I might be able to almost crack the top tier. But I don't have that kind of time, and when I play STO, I play GPvP, because that's what's fun for me. But it just isn't that fun to get stomped every time 30-1, even if I do learn from every loss.

Even if someone is a glutton for punishment and trying to get better, they will leave with enough pounding, because it just isn't fun. I don't know what the solution is, and I really want there to be one, because I do NOT want ground to return to the ghost town it was before the revamp. As long as that situation is avoided, everything will be fine.
Well actually I believe there is already a "casual PvP" event that a radio station puts on... I think Inquitar organizes them in a chat channel for his radio show. Also why don't these casual PvP'ers make use of the private challenge system and PvP against people in their own fleet or better yet, in zone on Earth Space Dock. I have had PvP dates over zone chat. I find that role players love to leave ESD for some private challenges on ghost ship (although they probably thought something else would happen in a private map). It's the makings of a bloody romantic comedy.
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Posts: 120
# 48
07-11-2011, 06:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
STO GPvP is more like pack mentality than actual team play, you stick close to the others and your survival goes up. And is somewhat true in Space PvP with fedballs.

And this focus on team play by Cryptic has not encouraged players to use teamwork, it just made real teams tougher.



If that was the case then the PvP population wouldn't be down to a few hundred out of tens of thousands that do play STO. So something has to give regarding playstyle, else Cryptic should get rid of PvP and divert recourses to actually making content.
The average sto player wouldn't make it out of the basement levels of most bracketed pvp centric games (like Halo, or Starcraft2).

Let's face it Az, the majority of the sto population according to odd snippets here and there from the devs apparently find PVE Challenging on Standard. Think about that. Something I can do, in a Delta Flyer, and not die (and infact succeed quite handedly in most cases) most players of this game can't even manage with a full T5 ship.

Those same players, just want to push buttons. Not actually learn the mechanics behind the game, or derive any enjoyment from a challenging fight. This same population is Cryptic's bread and butter, and that is why STO hasn't died a ignoble wimpering death by now. Because anyone that actually -does- enjoy challenging fights etc, by and large has already forgotten about STO and moved on to other games. Those of us that remain, are here because for now STO scratches a niche that we can't easily get elsewhere. Scifi Combat, with a large amount of abilities at our disposal.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 49
07-11-2011, 10:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavairo
The average sto player wouldn't make it out of the basement levels of most bracketed pvp centric games (like Halo, or Starcraft2).

Let's face it Az, the majority of the sto population according to odd snippets here and there from the devs apparently find PVE Challenging on Standard. Think about that. Something I can do, in a Delta Flyer, and not die (and infact succeed quite handedly in most cases) most players of this game can't even manage with a full T5 ship.

Those same players, just want to push buttons. Not actually learn the mechanics behind the game, or derive any enjoyment from a challenging fight. This same population is Cryptic's bread and butter, and that is why STO hasn't died a ignoble wimpering death by now. Because anyone that actually -does- enjoy challenging fights etc, by and large has already forgotten about STO and moved on to other games. Those of us that remain, are here because for now STO scratches a niche that we can't easily get elsewhere. Scifi Combat, with a large amount of abilities at our disposal.
Look lets not go down this road again, I won't disagree that there the majority are green and we shouldn't dumb down the game. But I will say this as well, it sucks to get curbstombed. Especially multiple times. Because losing sucks, and losing constantly just make you want to quit.

But at this rate, nothing is going to change.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 50
07-11-2011, 11:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
So what you think of it so far?



My assessment:
  • Neural Neutralizer is too good a 20 second time limit.
  • Tacticals with Operative kit = Deadly.
  • Security Teams are better than players.
  • Shotgutns and Miniguns = the new IT weapon.
    [*}Melee weapons are still on the old damage model.
  • Orbital Strike is nasty in close quarters.
  • PvP Queues once again bugged.

But my favorites is How Tacticals 1-Shot kill with Shotguns and Science can tank with immunity. Oh and the ever wonderful spawn camping.


Once again proves that Cryptic does not understand PvP or how to balance anything with PvP.
Just cuz your not good at it......
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