Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Ground Pacing is a little off.
07-09-2011, 07:48 PM
While 98% of what Season Four brought us was Pure Win and I think the Devs need to give themselves a big round of back patting for getting that all done; the pacing on the ground is a bit out of wack.

The Devs were looking to make things move faster and they did but it is now about 3 times faster. This is only a problem because it is SO fast and weapons are SO deadly that ground skills basically are meaningless. The best thing you can do in combat is spam your weapons repeatedly because everything will be dead in 2 seconds.

Some abilities like the Tactical ones are really awesome in the revamp and can be started before combat so they help a bit but once engaged those tactical officers should do nothing but fire. Melee is out of the question as nothing lives long enough to get within melee range. This really hurts Engineering fabrication. By the time you put a Generator or Turret down the battle is over.

I think what happened is the Devs tried to over balance a bit. They made the guns more powerful AND nerfed health and shields. I think making the guns more powerful but leaving health and shields alone would probably have made it around 2 times faster which would be about right. Not so fast that if you blink you miss it but not a slog fest either.

Don't get me wrong, I love the patch and the ground work is awesome but players are just too darned deadly.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
07-10-2011, 08:24 PM
Totally agree with your assessment. Its deification oscillation incredibly quickly. Ground combat is off a bit. weapons hit harder, but to a point where personal shields seem to go down in one ore two hits, couple of more hits and your dead. Shields seem to be pointless in ground combat since they are taken out very quickly, only gives you time to say a four letter word before you respawn. No time for your medic to even pop a heal on you, or for you to get off a heal. The heal abilities of the AI science personal needs a bit of tweaking, as well as the retarded AI that makes your team run into an enemy grenade that's been on the floor. I have also run into some weapons on some missions where i am unable to use my 2nd weapons ability.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
07-11-2011, 08:25 AM
The new combat captures the feel of the series better. I like it the way it is.

I still find i have plenty of time to through out some skills, engineers need to drop turrets at max range and then pull the enemies in towards it.

Cover Shield gives you something to hide behind so you can regen shields.

Gone are the days of just standing out in the open and trading fire like the armies of old Earth.

Now, you have to actually think like special forces and use cover (which a 5 man away team against 30-40 borg definately is special forces.

The only issue i had was against a group of Romulans because they kept dropping mines. If you walk in to the mine field now you WILL die. Change tactics and you will win.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
07-11-2011, 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Th0rh4mm3r
The new combat captures the feel of the series better. I like it the way it is.

I still find i have plenty of time to through out some skills, engineers need to drop turrets at max range and then pull the enemies in towards it.

Cover Shield gives you something to hide behind so you can regen shields.

Gone are the days of just standing out in the open and trading fire like the armies of old Earth.

Now, you have to actually think like special forces and use cover (which a 5 man away team against 30-40 borg definately is special forces.

The only issue i had was against a group of Romulans because they kept dropping mines. If you walk in to the mine field now you WILL die. Change tactics and you will win.
Agreed. I ran into mines a few times during pvp matches and they bloody hurt now. Before Season 4 we were totally reliant on our skills and we engineers mostly, if not only, used turrets and drones because that brought the most amount of damage. Now as engineers our Orbital Strike rocks, mines and the trans bomb are deadly. Hell, weapons malfunction is starting to look like a must for me (for pvp and STFs). If you take the time to look around instead of just staring in one direction you'll see more possibilities.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
07-11-2011, 01:06 PM
I would like to see the shield and health numbers returned to where they were and see where the game sits with the improved weapons and speed. If this doesnt work, I think a big pass of mob abilities will be required which I imagine a dev would hate to do (as would I).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
07-11-2011, 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -El-Jefe-
Totally agree with your assessment. Its deification oscillation incredibly quickly. Ground combat is off a bit. weapons hit harder, but to a point where personal shields seem to go down in one ore two hits, couple of more hits and your dead. Shields seem to be pointless in ground combat since they are taken out very quickly, only gives you time to say a four letter word before you respawn. No time for your medic to even pop a heal on you, or for you to get off a heal. The heal abilities of the AI science personal needs a bit of tweaking, as well as the retarded AI that makes your team run into an enemy grenade that's been on the floor. I have also run into some weapons on some missions where i am unable to use my 2nd weapons ability.
Aye... I do not like how my Bridge Officers RUN off into the enemy now for some reason. They act like they have a death wish.

The healing thing is another I failed to mention but right. There are now two states, Living or Dead. Having shields or health is meaningless because if you are taking solid damage you will be dead before someone can heal you or you can use a Hypo. Either you avoid getting hit or you die. Mind you, I am pretty good at avoiding getting killed even now but it is silly how quickly it happens when it does.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
07-11-2011, 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Th0rh4mm3r
The new combat captures the feel of the series better. I like it the way it is.

I still find i have plenty of time to through out some skills, engineers need to drop turrets at max range and then pull the enemies in towards it.

Cover Shield gives you something to hide behind so you can regen shields.

Gone are the days of just standing out in the open and trading fire like the armies of old Earth.

Now, you have to actually think like special forces and use cover (which a 5 man away team against 30-40 borg definately is special forces.

The only issue i had was against a group of Romulans because they kept dropping mines. If you walk in to the mine field now you WILL die. Change tactics and you will win.
Winning is not hard... LOL... I am saying winning is too darned easy. Why bother using skills? I can mow down anything in just a few hits. I can spam a pistol so fast that nothing survives. I stood out in the MIDDLE of a huge Klingon spawn and mowed them all down with the Disruptor Pistol you get from the past changing missions... They didn't stand a chance and they died long before they could use abilities or hurt me. I did not use a single ability and I am an ENGINEER... It is not like I am a Tactical using some awesome damage boosting skills or something.

You can create turrets and then pull someone back into them, this is true, but why be so inefficient when instead you can just walk forward and fire? All you need is a gun and a fire button not a kit.

Though on a side note for all Engs who still want to waste time dropping fabrications: If you put up a cover shield and then drop them just a pace behind it the enemy will never be able to destroy them lol. It is a pretty fun tactic considering they may try in vane to take them out.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
07-11-2011, 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinkuu_Akagan
Winning is not hard... LOL... I am saying winning is too darned easy. Why bother using skills? I can mow down anything in just a few hits. I can spam a pistol so fast that nothing survives. I stood out in the MIDDLE of a huge Klingon spawn and mowed them all down with the Disruptor Pistol you get from the past changing missions... They didn't stand a chance and they died long before they could use abilities or hurt me. I did not use a single ability and I am an ENGINEER... It is not like I am a Tactical using some awesome damage boosting skills or something.

You can create turrets and then pull someone back into them, this is true, but why be so inefficient when instead you can just walk forward and fire? All you need is a gun and a fire button not a kit.

Though on a side note for all Engs who still want to waste time dropping fabrications: If you put up a cover shield and then drop them just a pace behind it the enemy will never be able to destroy them lol. It is a pretty fun tactic considering they may try in vane to take them out.
I have to wonder if you're occassionally being hit with the Difficulty Slider setting ignore bug - where the game will occassionally spawn a map at a Difficulty setting that's different then what your chyaracter has set. It';s a know bug, and they're workiong on fixing it - but more than once, instead of a map being set to Elite for me, it was set to Normal, and I didn't notice until the third group of enemies (and was thinking - "Wow Elite is way too easy now"). I've now been checking rekligiously and /bugged any mission I encounter thios sitiuation on. It doesn't happen 100% of the time; but it happens enouggh that you could go WTF if you don't notice it.

I can only imagine hgow someone who's default setting us 'Normal' feels if he/she gets dropped onto an Elite spawned mission map.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
07-11-2011, 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armsman View Post
I have to wonder if you're occassionally being hit with the Difficulty Slider setting ignore bug - where the game will occassionally spawn a map at a Difficulty setting that's different then what your chyaracter has set. It';s a know bug, and they're workiong on fixing it - but more than once, instead of a map being set to Elite for me, it was set to Normal, and I didn't notice until the third group of enemies (and was thinking - "Wow Elite is way too easy now"). I've now been checking rekligiously and /bugged any mission I encounter thios sitiuation on. It doesn't happen 100% of the time; but it happens enouggh that you could go WTF if you don't notice it.

I can only imagine hgow someone who's default setting us 'Normal' feels if he/she gets dropped onto an Elite spawned mission map.
oh, it hurts. especially at Lt. I swear that Klingon officer was one-shotting my entire team.
also, the 7 injuries I recieved while supposedly on "normal" were... unpleasant.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
07-11-2011, 03:25 PM
I personally like the fact that laying down three Bridge Officers' worth of Phaser Turrets and just pulling your foes into them isn't an automatic victory any more. Sure, you CAN do this, but at the pace ground combat goes, there is no reason to.

The way I look at it, the Tactical skills are meant for the standard grunt level enemies. They're all buffs used to prepare before the battle, without aggroing anything. So you can launch an alpha strike and take the grunts down. Yes, a good Tac officer with a minigun can tear through almost anything, I was noticing that myself. That's your direct front line offense.

The Science skills are meant more for the tougher officers, particularly the ones with shields, and tricky foes, like medics or other scientists on the other side. Your debuffs aggro, so you don't want to throw them before the battle, but once the Tac officers have the aggro, the Sci officers back them up, by throwing in Anaesthesia Grenades and blasting down shields with Tachyon Harmonic. And Tachyon Harmonic does seem to BLAST down shields, now, although I think it's somehow random, because it would always take down only one or two shields in a group, and needed to keep being applied.

Finally, the Engineers and their emplacements are meant for the HARD battles where the offensive tactics don't work. They're for use against the Bosses, and to set up a fall back point for when things go bad. If you're rolling well, your Turrets shouldn't be doing any damage, but if you get surrounded or caught out by an ambush retreating back into them can save your bacon. Mines, too.

I'm the same way about melee, too. There was rarely any reason to use melee, but at one point I had cornered a foe against a wall, and he was nearly down, and I pulled out my melee weapon and creamed him. I probably could have continued with my normal weapons, but he might have gotten off a shot that, with the new balance, could have hurt a lot. Something else I've noticed is that I think melee weapons only have 50% shield penetration now. So that would be another reason they're not main weapons now, but finishing weapons.

YMMV, but I suspect that the above is what the devs were thinking. I'll also add that there are Engineer skills OTHER than building things, and you might try them to see if they add to your arsenal. (I definately want to see if something like Weapons Malfunction will keep a foe out until the fight is totally over)
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