Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
07-11-2011, 07:00 PM
Honestly the shotgun is balanced. I can see a cloaked tac at 10 meters (if they are specced. if not it's 15) without TO or Tric Scan up.

It's called Acute Senses :p
Meanwhile they can't see me, cause I'm also stealthed. It must really suck to be getting ready to deliver that cloaked ambush only to get one yourself, while you thought yourself safe. I find myself grumbling everytime I get TO detected, or Tric Scanned. Fun trivia, you'll be dead before you can decloak if you're up against a tac or sci. Because getting shot doesn't drop you from being cloaked.

Also, at ranges farther than 7m it's damage drops heinously.

If Active Detection and counter striking isn't your bag, then there's passive detection and damage prevention.
Force Field domes as meow points out are very handy things to keep from getting stealth alphad. Then there are mines. Seeker drones (IIRC) also have a higher detection rating than non AS traited players. There's a chance they'll see a cloaked tac on a fly by.

Then there's general aoe strikes. A tac caught in the aoe is screwed while stealthed. This is partly why Blast Spam is so popular, and I may be mistaken a cloaked tac is still eligible to take a split beam's secondary fire in the face if he's near a friendly. One you've been hit -once- everyone can see you and you still aren't decloaked.

And Crap I'm giving away all of my weaknesses. I'm shutting up now
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
07-11-2011, 07:42 PM
this is another case of "nerf it so we don't have to learn to counter"

1. learn to counter stealth, keep tricorder scans going, keep moving, be on the look out.

2. if you see a tac uncloak, he's got a small pause before he can pop his other buffs and or fire, run or knock him on his rear so his buffs lessen.

3. Do not charge straight at an enemy, if they've got a shotgun, and you're at point blank range, and you whine about getting one-shotted by it, its not their fault or the weapons fault.

4. Fight fire with fire, keep a shotgun as your secondary weapon. It's not a primary offensive weapon for range, so keep one with you.



that said there is only one small adjustment i'd say it needs:

Secondary fire could use a small range reduction.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
07-11-2011, 08:06 PM
i tested all stuff in pvp so far ive seen (being ground spec tact)
Sniper>Splitbeam>Minigun>shotgun>everything else
Shotgun has its use even decloaking at 8m away, Most other players kill u too, its hard to0 get into point blank with new ground combat, making sniper the best weapon ingame, i cna decloak 40m away behind someone, fully buff, then do 1300 dmg no problem, then roll forward and kill the rest of the team with a split beam
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
07-11-2011, 10:17 PM
I think you guys are missing the point...

I'm not saying that I'm having TROUBLE with tactical captains decloaking on ME. I'm saying I think I'm OP in matches because I've been one-shotting people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavairo
Honestly the shotgun is balanced. I can see a cloaked tac at 10 meters (if they are specced. if not it's 15) without TO or Tric Scan up.

It's called Acute Senses :p
My tactical captain is an Andorian. Acute sense is my middle name. (untrue, but metaphorically speaking)
But seriously, one of the biggest reasons I think ground PvP is in the state it's in is because it relies solely on burst damage. The sniper rifle used to be the go-to weapon for everyone...some people carried 2 in PvP matches. Now we have a weapon that doesn't have the charge time for the shot. You can literally run past an engineer's cover shield and one-shot him, sometimes getting part of his group as well. I've done it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor_Forthright View Post
this is another case of "nerf it so we don't have to learn to counter"
Once again, not at all what I'm talking about, or even close to what I said in the OP. My tactical captain is just as sturdy as any other, and I've taken out my fair share of tactical captains with my science captain. But sniper rifles aren't nearly as effective as the shotgun, and the minigun is a crying joke, don't even try and tell me it's not.

Do a private match with me, I'll stand there and let you unload your secondary minigun fire, and I'll be at about 3/4 health. Same goes for the full auto assault, or the blast assault, or any other weapon...I can withstand them. Then let me hit you once with my secondary fire, and once with my primary. You'll be dead. I find this unbalanced.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
07-12-2011, 02:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor_Forthright View Post
this is another case of "nerf it so we don't have to learn to counter"

1. learn to counter stealth, keep tricorder scans going, keep moving, be on the look out.

2. if you see a tac uncloak, he's got a small pause before he can pop his other buffs and or fire, run or knock him on his rear so his buffs lessen.

3. Do not charge straight at an enemy, if they've got a shotgun, and you're at point blank range, and you whine about getting one-shotted by it, its not their fault or the weapons fault.

4. Fight fire with fire, keep a shotgun as your secondary weapon. It's not a primary offensive weapon for range, so keep one with you.
^ This is more often than not the case. I'll have to jump into ground PvP soon to see it firsthand.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
07-12-2011, 02:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluerockBeing04 View Post
But seriously, one of the biggest reasons I think ground PvP is in the state it's in is because it relies solely on burst damage.
That's actually pretty much what most PvP *is*. WoW's PvP is most effective if you can pound someone so fast they can't heal or react. Age of Conan's is based on tearing strips off of someone asap. And back in STO, you have people shooting GUNS at each other; these aren't little foam nerf rounds. In space, escorts need to alpha strike to be most efficient and take out the weakest targets, so everyone else can focus on the longer-lasting ones.

PvP = Burst damage
Lt. Commander
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Posts: 120
# 17
07-12-2011, 07:27 AM
As an Engineer, I miss the days where my Reroute Power to Shields would make me nigh unkillable to most non-elite players. Alas, those days are gone. However, in their stead, is a world where all of the kits I have are actually useful - not just Fabrication kits! Hooray! I've used the Enemy Neut. kit more in the last few days than I did in the whole time since consumables started removing debuffs - it's actually pretty useful against tacs.

Here's the thing, though - spreading out to avoid shotgun blasts isn't necessarily feasible in Arena matches with hallways. And when you get to Otha or Assault, Tacs have lots of areas to sneak around even the most cleverly placed mines - and using a Dome means you have to be stationary.

There are ways to mitigate or try to avoid stealth/shotgun, sure. But it seems that they're much harder than the act itself, which, when pulled off by properly skilled (in game and actual person skill wise) players, is literally unstoppable. Not sure where I'm going with this, but that's what I think.

I also think the way roll works needs to be looked at. My double tapping doesn't seem as responsive as it should, which can be a critical thing at times. I would also like some sort of knockback mitigation somewhere other than traits.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
07-12-2011, 08:01 AM
While I know that this is the PvP forum, I'd like to add my own experience as someone who's just played PvE just as another point of view.


Assault weapons, especially shotguns are overpowered. A full away team armed with shotguns can take down a group of NPCs (that aren't Borg and able to adapt) in just a few shots without taking much, if any damage in return. The combination of high AOE damage and knockback generally means that NPCs don't get the chance to fire back.

IMO, the damage of the shotgun needs to be rescaled as it is currently too high.

I also believe that the secondary fire of the minigun also needs looking at. While it is less overpowered than the shotgun (thanks to the lack of a knockback element) the damage is still rather devastating against groups of NPCs (once again, the borg adaptation clause applies).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
07-12-2011, 09:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meeowww View Post
It's pretty sad that this thread is mainly complaints rather than asking the community about defensive strategies. For example (in no order, just off the top of my head)... Engineers can set a trap of mines to punish stealthers, and other teammates can sit in the mine barrier. Two engineers could make a forcefield dome and chain them after each thirty second cooldown. Science can make a dampening field which will debuff damage of anyone who enters your bubble. (I think this is the best strategy...) Science can use tricorder scan to detect stealthers. Or they can use tricorder scan against other teammates to help them detect stealthers. Tacticals can use target optics to detect stealth, or they can stealth themselves and then kill whoever destealths. (Why do you say that the stealther will run away unharmed? Shouldn't you have someone on your team ready to pick them off?) Tacticals can also sit in the forcefield dome or dampening field, or chroniton mine barrier.

Or better yet, why don't you spread out more so you aren't killed in a stupid way. It's your own fault if you bunch up together without any defenses or crowd control. If you don't like lunge then pick up an armor that gives you physical resists. Or why don't you just crouch so you get a dodge bonus.

Not to mention the fact that tacticals are a one trick pony and should be able to pull of a DPS trick like that. As science, I have one trick of super healing myself and tanking against the DPS pulsewave trick. You wanna nerf that too?

I am so sick of people crying nerf when there are tons of defensive strategies already in the game but it is easier for everyone to complain rather than learn a defensive strategy and practice with a team of friends. I didn't even mention all of the other ways you can defend yourself (you could even use sonic pulse, weapons malfunction, sprint running for dodge bonus, turrets that you put in a border by a corner so the turrets go off, nanite health monitor, many more skills... it's so silly that this is even an issue for someone). Also it seems that the original poster is contradicting himself... why don't you stun the tact that de-stealths?

QQQQQ!!!!!
eather u are useing this and dont want them to nerf it or just realy dont know what ur talking about these so called statagies ur talking about makes no difference i have tried them and to be honest what stratagy can u have about some one one shotting u. there is none
Lt. Commander
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Posts: 120
# 20
07-12-2011, 09:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainMerzan
what stratagy can u have about some one one shotting u. there is none
This is what I was getting at - even if you use strategies to try to avoid a one shot, if the Tac can avoid your mines or whatever, and you can't get off anything in time once they un-stealth, what is the strategy to use against a one shot kill?
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