Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
07-19-2011, 03:26 AM
That would mean the KDF would again be kicked by the devs.
what you called kicked, the devs call running a business
i understand you would feel angry or something over them being C-Store (if that happens), but you should be glad you're getting these variants at all
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
07-19-2011, 04:00 AM
Originally Posted by Joshmaul
Almost none of the other reskins have been free, so I don't see why that would change.
Well let me think about this one second.

Perhaps because the Federation got 3 skins for every ship they had from the start of the game and an endless variety of new skins, great refits and crossover ships.

Because most of the klingon players still fly around in a ships which were introduced with the start of the game in Feb. last year. (Negh, Bop, Carrier, Raptor with 2 variants each at T5 level - when you level up there is only ONE version of these ships available - in comparison THREE on Fed side for each ship while you level up and at T5 )

Neglectable are Lionfish(although I see some now and then), Hippo, Varanus and the BīRel.
They are just bad or broken.(normal carrier > Lionfish, Negh and Vorcha > Hippo for klingon surprise assaults, Varanus has a dreadful turnrate, BīRel still broken enhanced battlecloak)

I am happy they introduced a T5 Vor`Cha though.

I am aware that Cryptic is a company and is all about making money but hey, the KDF as been kicked in the teeth so many times already that I think the players deserve some free goodies. One ship at least could come with a free ship token. But that is probably only wishfull thinking. Prove me wrong Cryptic.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
07-19-2011, 04:51 AM
Fully agree with you f1restarter.

The Klingons deserve some free goodies for our continued torment .
I wouldn't mind the business thing at all if the KDF would have the same number as free ship skins as the Feds, regretably this isn't true. So I see the new ships skins as an update to the promised KDF content before release.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
07-19-2011, 08:38 AM
It's nice to see someone at Cryptic is actively working on improving the Klingon experience, and not hiding behind empty promises or double-speak.

If they're serious about making a new Klingon flagship, then how about getting the mission folks to come up with a Featured Episode Series that uses such a ship? In the past, such development efforts have been used as excuses to get new things into the game. How about an attempted Borg takeover of a ship carrying a VIP Klingon like Kahless? Rescuing him from being assimilated would be a worthy endeavor for either faction and could potentially award rights to purchase a faction-appropriate flagship.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
07-19-2011, 10:08 AM
After reading the OP's original quoted post, then reading the new Engineering Report, I am abit deflated on what I was expecting..

I was honestly excited at first thinking "Awesome new ships in the upper Tiers.. sweet!" But then I read this and I'm just all.. "Oh.. it's.. for the lower tiers . . ."

While I do agree it would be nice to have more ships in the lower tiers, the upper tiers need it almost as desperately as well.. Especially if the Federation gets even more ships.. Not that I don't expect a 2:1 ratio on Federation vs Klingon ships, I expect the Federation to have more ships at this point. I just would love to see them actually make the later levels more interesting in ship selection then it is now, I mean let's face it, you have the following choices based on your route:

BoP Pilot: Hegh'ta or B-Rel Retro (which requires alot of creativity to fly properly)
Raptor Pilot: Raptor or Garumba (Most would choose Raptor over the Garumba because.. well.. it is a better choice.. but most even still will just choose a BoP)
Battle Cruiser pilot: Negh'Var, Vor'cha Retro, or Orion Marauder
*Science: Varanus (Must be lonely being the only Science ship in the KDF Empire)
*Carrier: Vor'quv or Kar'fi

(*Battle Cruiser bleeds into Sci ship and Carrier, so you could fly any of those ship types with out actually being fully speced into the sci ship or the Carrier)

Meanwhile the Federation has:
Escort: MVAE, Defiant-R, Advanced Escort, Fleet Escort
Science: Recon, Deep Space, Nebula, D'kyr, Intrepid-R
Cruiser: Galaxy-X, Galaxy-R, Star Cruiser, Assault Cruiser, Excelsior

If you were to add the BoP and the Raptor together, it would be equal to the Escorts the Federation has (although they have better quality Escorts then we actually do when comparing the Raptor to the Defiant, and the Garumba to the Fleet Escort)
Yet if you add the Battle Cruisers to the Carriers, and the Science in the KDF vs the Federation, they have more ships. (6 KDF vs 10 Fed) And that's not taking into account the lower tiers. If we were to take into account those lower tiers:

KDF Tier 1: Bird of Prey
Fed Tier 1: Connie, NX, Oberth
KDF Tier 2: Bird of Brey, Battle Cruiser, Raptor
Fed Tier 2: Escort, Science, Cruiser
KDF Tier 3: Bird of Brey, Battle Cruiser, Raptor
Fed Tier 3: Escort, Science, Science, Cruiser, Cruiser
KDF Tier 4: Bird of Brey, Battle Cruiser, Raptor
Fed Tier 4: Escort, Science, Cruiser

Which makes the total of ships: KDF 16 vs Fed 24

So, while I know they will be adding more ships to the lower tiers.. It will still mean that the Federation will have more ships then the Feds, unless they finally decide to even things out and give the KDF more and fix some of the problems with some of the ships we have now. Not to mention the Federation right now has a ship that has a universal console, and the MVAE console which can be used freely between the MVAE and the Advanced Escort.

Which means to me that the Federation, their flag ship of the game, will always look like the part of the game where the Majorty of the population will WANT to play, while the Klingons will always be an after thought. And I hate that I enjoy playing in the after thought of STO.. Because it just means that we will always have less, and be less, then the main part of the game.
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# 26
07-19-2011, 05:48 PM
Feds actually have four ships at Tier 1 - the three you mentioned, and the standard Miranda/Centaur/ShiKahr light cruisers.
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# 27
07-20-2011, 01:29 AM
Originally Posted by Joshmaul
Feds actually have four ships at Tier 1 - the three you mentioned, and the standard Miranda/Centaur/ShiKahr light cruisers.
Heh.. I always forget about that one since I never use it. Ok so the Feds have 25 Ships...
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# 28
07-21-2011, 02:39 AM
Originally Posted by Kilawpilath View Post
Heh.. I always forget about that one since I never use it. Ok so the Feds have 25 Ships...

Feds have a lot more than 25 ships from tier 4 down.

Tier 1:

1. Constitution
2. NX
3. Oberth
4. Miranda
5. Centau
6. ShiKahr

Tier 2:

7. Constitution (Refit)
8. Excalibur
9. Vesper
10. Saber
11. Rapier
12. Ushaan
13. Nova
14. Arora
15. Quasar

Tier 3:

16. Cheyenne
17. Stargazer
18. Dakota
19. Akira
20. Zephyr
21. Oslo
22. Olympic
23. Hope
24. Horizon
25. Nebula
26. Excelsior

Tier 4:
27. Galaxy
28. Cestial
29. Envoy
30. Defiant
31. Vigilant
32. Gallant
33. Intrepid
34. Cochrane
35. Discovery

Tier 5:
36. Sovereign
37. Noble
38. Majestic
39. Avenger
40. Vanguard
41. Emissary
42. Galaxy Refit
43. Excelsior Refit
44. Prometheus
45. Phoenix
46. Cerberus
47. Hermes
48. Gryphon
49. Dervish
50. Defiant Refit
51. Luna
52. Sol
53. Polaris
54. Oracle
55. Trident
56. Destiny
57. Galaxy X
58. Nebula Refit
59. Intrepid Refit
60. Nimbus
61. Comet
62. Maelstrom
63. Nomad
64. Hephaestus
65. Imperial
66. D'Kyr

67. Runabout
68. Captain's Yacht
69. Delta Flyer
70. Type 6 Shuttle
71. Peregrine Fighter

In comparison, the Klingon ships:

Tier 1:
1. B'Rel
2. Koloth

Tier 2:
3. Quldun
4. K'tanco
5. Somraw

Tier 3:
6. Norgh
7. K'T'Inga
8. K'T'Inga Refit
9. Qorgh

Tier 4:
10. Ki'Tang
11. Vor'Cha
12. Pach

Tier 5:
13. Hegh'Ta
14. Haj
15. Negh'Var
16. QuDaj
17. QIn
18. BIrok
19. Vo'Quv
20. Vod'leH
21. Vor'Cha Refit
22. Tor'kaht
23. Garumba
24. B'Rel Refit
25. Marauder
26. Kar'Fi
27. Varanus

28. Toduj Fighter
29. Shuttle
30. Chariot

So from Tier 4 down, we're talking a comparison of 35/12. From T5 down, 71/30.
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Posts: 120
# 29
07-21-2011, 04:44 AM
Good statistic . Points to a certain conclusion .
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
07-21-2011, 05:15 AM
I think 71/30 isn't quite as bad as it might look. Something like 71/40-45 is probably about the right difference between the two factions, so we're not far off a reasonable value, and making variants to all those lower-tiered ships will obviously bring us closer to that.

I know I'll get mobbed for saying that, but /shrug.

Klingon's have never been known for having a vast array of different ships. They are instead renowned for making old ships work exceptionally well, for making ships defy the odds, etc.

Personally, I think Starfleet ships should remain tiered, with certain vessels only being usable at lower tiers, but at T5 all existing Klingon ships should have a T5 variant. The disparity of ship numbers would then look a whole lot different and it would very much fit how Klingons are better at utilising older hulls than Starfleet.

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