Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
07-21-2011, 06:16 AM
And people wondered why I listed CaptLogan as my favorite Dev a ways back.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
07-21-2011, 06:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vampiric_hoshi View Post
I think 71/30 isn't quite as bad as it might look. Something like 71/40-45 is probably about the right difference between the two factions, so we're not far off a reasonable value, and making variants to all those lower-tiered ships will obviously bring us closer to that.

I know I'll get mobbed for saying that, but /shrug.

Klingon's have never been known for having a vast array of different ships. They are instead renowned for making old ships work exceptionally well, for making ships defy the odds, etc.

Personally, I think Starfleet ships should remain tiered, with certain vessels only being usable at lower tiers, but at T5 all existing Klingon ships should have a T5 variant. The disparity of ship numbers would then look a whole lot different and it would very much fit how Klingons are better at utilising older hulls than Starfleet.
Depending on the how I don't think there's going to be much mobbing, pushing of shoving of any kind.
At least among the KDF playerbase.
The Feds will probabaly scream murder because Cryptic siad the'll not get a T5 TOS Connie...
Anyway I'm in as long as the stats of those refitted lower tier ship reflect that they are refits of lower-tier ships.
Don't get me wrong I don't want them to be weaker than "native" T5 ships.

I want them to fill specific niches and show where they come from.
I'd love a T5 K't'inga but I'd find a T5 K't'inga that can tank as well as a Vor'cha, not ot mention a Negh'var ridicilous.
That's why I foe example proposed it to have stats similar to a ship of a size closer to it, i.e. the Raptor.
Same should be true for a T5 refit of the T2 Raptor which would not make much sense having the same amount of weapons and hull as a T5 Raptor, it shold have other strenghts in its facour like some nice high-end electronics (represented by "blue" slots) to make the enemy's lif miserable while being light-footed due to its small size.
It would give us a well-rounded fleet with some cool toys to play with without turning the KDF into a ridicilous circus.
And, as you put it, there would be several varied ways for very varied player-types among every class to beat both the odds and the enemy.

Or the TLDR version:
The further away the ship's original tier is from T5, the more the refitted ship should differ in function and capabilites from "native" T5 ships of the same category.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
07-21-2011, 07:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vampiric_hoshi View Post
Personally, I think Starfleet ships should remain tiered, with certain vessels only being usable at lower tiers, but at T5 all existing Klingon ships should have a T5 variant. The disparity of ship numbers would then look a whole lot different and it would very much fit how Klingons are better at utilising older hulls than Starfleet.
Not every ship would work well at T5 as has already been pointed out. The K'Tinga would make an odd T5 cruiser while the K'Tanco would be impossible as a T5 cruiser.

So let me ask about your idea from a completely different direction. Taking BoPs, the ship classification that this, arguably, would work best with. Would you want the T2-4 BoP's to be alternative skins for either the B'Rel or the Hegh'Ta or completely different ships?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
07-21-2011, 07:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermbot View Post
Not every ship would work well at T5 as has already been pointed out. The K'Tinga would make an odd T5 cruiser while the K'Tanco would be impossible as a T5 cruiser.

So let me ask about your idea from a completely different direction. Taking BoPs, the ship classification that this, arguably, would work best with. Would you want the T2-4 BoP's to be alternative skins for either the B'Rel or the Hegh'Ta or completely different ships?
The B'Rel refitalready answers your question.

If you compare the B'Rel refit vs the Hegh'ta, then we can say that:

The B'Rel refit is a "Light Raider".
The Hegh'ta is a "Heavy Raider".

If we ignore for the moment the fact that the B'Rel's cloak is broken, the ship is still viable at T5 and displays a slightly different way of playing a Raider.

That means the T2 and T3 BoP's could be added as T5 "Light Raiders" with the same stats as the B'Rel, while the T4 BoP could be added as a "Heavy Raider" with the same stats as the Hegh'Ta.

Its then just a matter of defining what the difference is between a Heavy and Light Raptor, and Heavy and Light Cruiser, and assigning the ships in the same way as the BoP above.

Taking the Cruiser, for example, a "Light Cruiser" might sport 8 weapon slots but have weaker hull than the Vor'Cha, 1 less console, but use Battle Cloak. So 1vs1 a Light Cruiser will probably not defeat a Heavy Cruiser, but its viable enough and different enough to still be an available option.

So the K'Tanco and K'T'Inga would slot into Light Cruiser, while the Vor'Cha is already a Heavy Cruiser.

I'm not a raptor captain so I'm not even going to attempt to define a difference between a Light and Heavy Raptor, but you get the idea.

Also, having a definable "Light Cruiser" is a good excuse to finally add the K'Vort Cruiser. Sorry, couldn't resist dropping the K'Vort in
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
07-23-2011, 12:50 AM
Update:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptLogan
Yeah, just to make it clear though they aren't shelved forever, just pushed another week. I'll get back to them soon Fortunately I finished all the BoP's already. There will ultimately be more new KDF skins t han Fed skins.
While the first sentence is a reply to a small rant another person said, the rest is interesting The skins are coming along nicely according to him, and hopefully we'll get them soon
Oh, and it's outright confirmed that there are MORE KDF ship skins than Fed YES!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
07-23-2011, 03:17 AM
Can you please post a link to thread you found this .
Thank you
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
07-23-2011, 03:30 AM
There should be a CaptLogan appreciation thread or something cos the guy is awesome.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
07-23-2011, 03:54 AM
Quote:
Can you please post a link to thread you found this .
Thank you
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=225185 (4th page, first post on that page)
you're welcome
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
07-23-2011, 06:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vampiric_hoshi View Post
Feds have a lot more than 25 ships from tier 4 down.

Shuttle/Support:
67. Runabout
68. Captain's Yacht
69. Delta Flyer
70. Type 6 Shuttle
71. Peregrine Fighter

In comparison, the Klingon ships:
Shuttle/Support:
28. Toduj Fighter
29. Shuttle
30. Chariot

So from Tier 4 down, we're talking a comparison of 35/12. From T5 down, 71/30.
I was compairing CLASS type ships not Variant costumes for those ships. That is a bigger difference since those ship classes are the same regardless if they are using one visual representation or another or a combination of such things. Now the shuttles on the other hand I suppose are something else I, again, forgot to consider. But the other stuff is more of a costume issue then just a ship issue.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
07-23-2011, 08:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trek17
Update:

While the first sentence is a reply to a small rant another person said, the rest is interesting The skins are coming along nicely according to him, and hopefully we'll get them soon
Oh, and it's outright confirmed that there are MORE KDF ship skins than Fed YES!
Good news and it also seems fair since there are so few KDF skins to begin with.
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