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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
07-18-2011, 03:48 PM
Awaiting info~. I would totally respec if this is confirmed. (To within a reasonable degree anyway)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
07-18-2011, 04:51 PM
Sorry for the delay, I still can't get my character transferred to tribble <;_;> and not wanting to blow any respec tokens live, I'm just sort of sitting back to wait and see.

Trust me though, as soon as I can get to Tribble, I will be giving this as thorough a testing as I know how. (Really wish I'd copied this character over awhile ago, didn't expect to have a reason to though >.< Oh well!)

My method is going to be this:

Each test will last a half an hour of in-combat time.

I will not fire any ship mounted weapons, and I will set my aux to Max to maximize fighter deployment speed.

Every fight will start with no fighters deployed, and I will continue throughout the fight to keep fighters at the highest possible level.

At the end of a half an hour without disruptors specced, I will switch to a spec with disruptors, and repeat as near-exactly the same test in the same fashion.

Ideally I'll use a Foundry map that lets me respawn the exact same enemy over and over and over to control variations.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
07-18-2011, 06:56 PM
You are one of the amazing assets we have on this site. Thank you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
07-20-2011, 06:30 AM
Alright so - I still can't get copied over to test. This is becoming very irritating >< Just mentioning it so folks are aware I'm still planning to do this, it's... just taking awhile. After consideration I've realized I really can't adequately test live to the degree I'd like to, since a 'spawn specific enemies' map would be a farm map live. On Tribble it shouldn't be a problem however.

So long story short - am working on it <>.<> just need the copy tool functional yet. *grumble*
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
07-20-2011, 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistformsquirrel
Alright so - I still can't get copied over to test. This is becoming very irritating >< Just mentioning it so folks are aware I'm still planning to do this, it's... just taking awhile. After consideration I've realized I really can't adequately test live to the degree I'd like to, since a 'spawn specific enemies' map would be a farm map live. On Tribble it shouldn't be a problem however.

So long story short - am working on it <>.<> just need the copy tool functional yet. *grumble*
I have some stuff on Tribble I would be fine doing it with, but I have no idea how to run a parser of any sort.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
07-20-2011, 11:31 AM
If you feel like messing with it; http://sourceforge.net/projects/combatlogparser/

That's the parser I'm using. It's fairly simple really.

Basically type /combatlog 1 when you're ready to start recording (you'll want the parser up too); then, in the parser, load the CombatLog file from STO.

What should happen is, it should log every battle as you go a long, it offers some fairly detailed results. The big thing you'll want to look at is the overall average DPS of all fights.

Once you've got one set of data (no-disruptor skill for instance), then load the log file again and it'll start a second batch - then fight again for however long it is you were planning to measure, and check the Average DPS again.

If they're rather close, it's probably safe to say there's no real effect there. If the post-Disruptor skill version is significantly up, then it's probably safe to say there's an impact. I don't know enough about stats to give you precise numbers for margins of error and whatnot, I'm just going by a general "This is high enough that I have a hard time believing it's not an effect of the skill."

That's part of why I want to run the same fight over and over again with one of the Foundry missions on Tribble, so the only differences are the ones based on random luck (which should largely average out over enough time), and the skill difference (if there is any bonus to be detected.)

But only mess around with it if you're sure you feel like it. <. .>b there's no rush or anything. Really hope this transfer thing is fixed soon regardless though >.<m this is annoying.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
07-20-2011, 12:35 PM
Keeping this thread alive as I too would like to know.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
07-20-2011, 05:47 PM
Check out this thread from the archives, which should still be accurate unless the skills were changed and omitted from release notes somewhere.

http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=185067

Enjoy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
07-20-2011, 07:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by devast8tor View Post
Check out this thread from the archives, which should still be accurate unless the skills were changed and omitted from release notes somewhere.

http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=185067

Enjoy.
Unfortunately in that thread there was simply alot of speculation. No concrete information was given. If we rely only on "The Tooltips say X, so X boosts Y pet" then we're going to get things wrong a fair bit as Cryptic's track record could use some work. In fact there are even comments in that thread that cast doubt on carrier pets being buffed by certain skills at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilawpilath
I think this is when I should chime in here and state that during the Beta for 2.0, while testing Carriers, I was informed, by a dev, that the only Pets that actually gain any benifit from your captian skills, are your Photonic Fleet pets.

These are supposed to be simple placement holders for the skills they use, or some other effects that deal with the pets directly. I believe it was supposed to be a skill display bug. But my memory isn't the best on such a situation. I wish I could remember which Dev I spoke to as well and gave me that information.

How ever, if some one can find a way to prove this is not true, and the pets do infact gain a benifit from captian skill training, I'd love to know. (For Example, Going on tribble, Flying unspeced in any skills dealing with the pets in question, then Respecing and flying with points in the skills and checking if there's any noticable difference in Damage, Pet effects, etc..)
In that thread no one came forward to answer his doubts with facts and numbers, which is what I am asking for and I think what mistformsquirrel is wanting.

Thank you mistformsquirrel for posting the link to the parser. I cannot do so now but later on tonight if I can I will log on to my character on Tribble and to some testing. I am considering going to the first Empire Defense area and just fighting a forever swarm of those Miranda's. Hopefully -way- outleveling them will keep any number variations to a minimum. I would love to have access to the Federation Minefield fleet action but with the addition of the queue I cannot just fly in and use it as a shooting gallery, natch.

Foundry isn't going to be an option for me because for some reason that whole thing might as well be written in Greek for how much sense it all makes to me. So to the Empire Defense mission I go tonight unless anyone else has a better idea.

Edit: an idea, this plan actually sounds flawed from the get go. Won't there be a unmanagable damage variation in there anyways? Whether or not the disruptor bolts lands on sheild or hull would change it's damage a bit, right? Different resistance levels? So let's say on one pass versus a ship all my fighters get a brain and make a concentrated attack on one shield facing, drill it down, and blow through the hull in short order. Second fight, they all spread the damage out and maybe the enemy uses Emergency Power to Shields. Takes longer, more damage done against shields, and now with the shield damage resistance effects in there too. Wouldn't this skew the damage results?

Or am I over thinking this and these damage variations are why I would need to fight a huge number of ships over the course of an hour or two to get a reasonable data set....?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
07-20-2011, 08:19 PM
The parser can be set to run in "Treat shields as damage" mode - in which case damage done to shields and done to hull are counted the exact same way.

There will be some variance, but it ultimately won't matter because what you're really after is the total average DPS.

*edit* The big reason for needing to fight for a half an hour to an hour of time is to even out the random nature of the damage rolls. Since it's easy enough if you just try it in one fight to have one fight where your fighters dish out lots of low hits, and another fight where they roll high a lot - but when spread over more and more fights everything averages out. (I wish I were better at stats, I could explain it better; this is just my laysquirrel's understanding of how to do this kind of thing >.>)

The reason I'm concerned about different ship types is that I notice some of them have very different levels of shield and hull resistance - and while you can look at individual fights, it's best on the overall if you have a large average.

So, unless I'm misunderstanding, you should be fine so long as you're fighting the same type of ship over and over again. That said, even a variety of ships could be useful for a general trend, so long as you don't say... do nothing but frigates, then nothing but cruisers on the second set. All-the-same-type is just cleaner and makes the data most reliable basically.

Btw, not sure if this is what you meant but, you might look at already-existing Foundry missions; last I was on Tribble (fed-side I'm afraid) there were several test missions up. If someone's already made one for space Klingon side, that could be ideal. (I'm assuming you meant actually building stuff with Foundry >< if I'm wrong, my apologies!)

And thank you very much for taking the time - I really wanted to jump on this as soon as the whole idea of testing it out was brought up, and the whole no-transfer thing is driving me up the wall. >.<m

@devast8or - As PrincessKatrina says, we're mostly after numbers here. While that thread hints there may be nothing to find here* - it's best to know absolutely for sure. Much as I enjoy STO, it's documentation is often... lacking; and I have to admit to being kind of skeptical of a thread wherein the primary claim seems to be "I heard it from a dev".

I do appreciate the effort in digging it up and all - but I think it'll be best for all if we get some hard data.

I'm going to be really kind of disappointed if there's nothing to be found though.
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