Go Back   Star Trek Online > Feedback > PvP Gameplay
Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
07-19-2011, 07:12 PM
@alastor: Lol, I know, that happened a couple times with me and the spawning too. I felt bad killing the same guy three times in a row, but it isn't like I could just let him run away.

I felt bad though.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
07-19-2011, 07:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beltoram
- Personal Shields feel too weak in PvP. PvPers HAVE to use Capacity and Regen bonuses on personal shields because without they would die even faster. (I was in discussions with CrypticGecko about this specific issue earlier today, and I will keep compiling feedback about what we can do to come to a happy middle since this would also affect ground PvE as well )
A lot of people do not take cover. I would be worried about giving shields too much more power. Medics are pretty tough as it is. And a good team can buff up a Tac point man very well. While the average player would love stronger shields, there are a lot of power teams that would steamroll through even worse if they had more. Maybe giving Engineer shield heals/buffs a bit more power would help?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
07-19-2011, 10:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beltoram

- There is an issue with players refusing to respawn, keeping people in the PvP map. I forwarded this off to dstahl today to see what we can do about that (I did suggest we do a force respawn after a timer in PvP only, but we'll see what they decide.)
While I can see the problem in organized PvP matches, there is also another point that has to be considered. I'm not very often in PvP queues but often enough in Warzones. There are situations I refuse to respawn immediately, namely spawn camping. In such situations I like to wait till my red alert goes off, the enemy is distracted by another player, so I at least have a chance to build up power levels or whatever. A forced respawn that I can not control would be extremely unpleasent.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
07-19-2011, 10:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by decker999 View Post
While I can see the problem in organized PvP matches, there is also another point that has to be considered. I'm not very often in PvP queues but often enough in Warzones. There are situations I refuse to respawn immediately, namely spawn camping. In such situations I like to wait till my red alert goes off, the enemy is distracted by another player, so I at least have a chance to build up power levels or whatever. A forced respawn that I can not control would be extremely unpleasent.
Spawn camping is another issue in and of itself. I've brought up multiple ideas on how we can counter that (a super strong turret, a dampening field that doesn't allow firing in it, SOMETHING that says, 'back off.') So if we can hit the spawn camping issue, then force respawn shouldn't feel as unsafe like what you described.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
07-19-2011, 10:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beltoram
- There is an issue with players refusing to respawn, keeping people in the PvP map. I forwarded this off to dstahl today to see what we can do about that (I did suggest we do a force respawn after a timer in PvP only, but we'll see what they decide.)

- Spawn points on Assimilated Cruiser are an issue. Spawn camping eminent.
The first is only a result of the second (most of the time). People refuse to respawn because if they do they will be instantly killed again. It's the same in space sometimes. If your spawn is no longer safe many people either leave the match or decide to no longer respawn. Both hurts the game. Make the spawn safe or give us some kind of immunity and the problem should be solved. Force players to respawn while their spawnpoint is camped and players will just leave the match.


This leads to another point you missed. The current ground maps (except Otha) with their narrow gangways give users of Shotguns (or similar weapons) a huge advantage. Which might also lead to the assumption Tacs with stealth are OP. On the other hand sniper weapons can't use their range. What we need are more open maps and more maps with both. For example the desert of Coliseum might be a great PvP map for a sniper. Throw in some big rocks for cover (and a capure point on the small hill where we leave the Reman to get medicine) and you have a perfect capture the hill map. Another nice map might be the town in Cutting the Cord. Small gangways for shotguns, on top of the towers enough range to use snipers.

Next point Neural Neutralizer. It is too strong. Why not make it like Jam Sensor in space? If you shoot a "jammed" target it will break. So it will be a defensive skill again. Also it might need a counter. Don't know if their is a tac/eng skill which might be a good counter (maybe target optics or equipment diagnostics) but at least some medic sci skills should be able to counter it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
07-19-2011, 10:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beltoram
Spawn camping is another issue in and of itself. I've brought up multiple ideas on how we can counter that (a super strong turret, a dampening field that doesn't allow firing in it, SOMETHING that says, 'back off.') So if we can hit the spawn camping issue, then force respawn shouldn't feel as unsafe like what you described.
a few other ideas:

-spawn in as invisible, weapons disabled, and invulnerable for a few seconds, allowing escape, essentially a "ghost" mechanic may be inevitable
-a buffer sphere (like a repulsor wave) pushes anything within weapon range away from the spawning person or ship (although i see potential problems with this one)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
07-19-2011, 11:00 PM
I'm about to head off of here for tonight, but the spawn camp/not-respawning issues are bugging me enough tonight that tomorrow I'll talk to some of the other devs to see what we can do about getting out changes sooner rather than later. I dunno what time I'll get around to it, but once I have something to say, even if its, "I talked to the other devs, I'll check back later with what they say we should do." I'll let you guys know.

Hang tight, be patient, I'm pushing to get this fixed sooner rather than later
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
07-20-2011, 12:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beltoram
Spawn camping is another issue in and of itself. I've brought up multiple ideas on how we can counter that (a super strong turret, a dampening field that doesn't allow firing in it, SOMETHING that says, 'back off.') So if we can hit the spawn camping issue, then force respawn shouldn't feel as unsafe like what you described.
The Super Turret idea would work if it was a HUGE Open Ground PvP Map like Ohta, but wouldn't for the current GPvP Maps. (BTW, the Turrets in Cap and Hold should be super buffed).

I like the Dampening Field idea, but given what we experienced with the testing of the new DSE PvP maps, someone likely shoot inside, unless the field makes people invulnerable to those attacks. For instance Shanty Town, players are easily within sniper range at the respawn points.

(BTW, people are finding ways to climb on the buildings).

So even if the Dampening Field is used on that map, people would use it as a shield and the attackers would simply back out of firing range til the turtle pokes it's head out of the shell in order to clobber it. If you get my metaphor.



Personally, I think it would be best if you edited the maps to include hallway safe spots and have a shield protecting the respawned players. That way if someone tries to camp, the respawned players would be safe and able to attack, but the other players cannot shoot back and would have to fall back.

If you aren't able to edit the maps, then perhaps a respawn buff that makes players invulnerable for a duration and if attacked the counter increases for an additional duration. And if you went past a certain distance it disappears.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
07-20-2011, 01:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beltoram
[...]
- Cryo Grenades+CRM-200=1-shot kill with the alternate fire of the weapon. The weapon by itself is fine, but the Cryo Grenade is an issue.
I wouldn't blame it all on the poor grenade either. Besides the Cryo Tribble and having the 'right' trait there are no ways to get resistence vs cold damage. It was ought to happen that people 'rediscovered' the good old freeze gun. Maybe a nice [cold] modifier for armor is in order?
The real kicker is though that there is a system deficiency in the way the game treats crowd control resists.
Usualy it goes: you get hit by a stun/root and use a hypo to break free again. Just to be hit with another CC immediatly after. you die. Especially bad if you happen to turn up inside the blast radius of a cryo grenade, I told you to DODGE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beltoram
[...]
- Personal Shields feel too weak in PvP. PvPers HAVE to use Capacity and Regen bonuses on personal shields because without they would die even faster. (I was in discussions with CrypticGecko about this specific issue earlier today, and I will keep compiling feedback about what we can do to come to a happy middle since this would also affect ground PvE as well )
I'm slightly ambivalent about this one. As a Tac (full ground specced and for almost a year now) I 'only' have my higher damage to go against the other classes. Currently in a mexican standoff against either of the other two classes I cannot tell if I'm going down or my opponent. Raising shield capacity would not only benefit engineers far more than the other classes but in addition weaken melee weapons even more.
I suggest tweaking the dimishing returns on armor resistance instead first since those changes were responsible for making us so squishy in the first place. On a side note, someone charging you with a melee weapon should trigger a 'crap I'm not wearing my polyalloy armor' instead of 'looooool' but that is just personal opinion. Back to a raise in shield capacity, I had my share of bunkered engineers that I rather avoided unless having four sec escorts up and feeling suicidal. Weapons malfunction is there for a reason yet it has been ages that was used on me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beltoram
[...]
- The Pulse Wave/Shotgun weapons by themselves are not an issue, but a Stealth, fully buffed Tactical Officer with a Pulse Wave is an issue with one-shotting people from behind.
I agree. If the tech is possible I would disable flanking damage while buffed with 'ambush'. If that doesn't cut it you even could brute force no flanking damage while under stealth effects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beltoram
[...]
- There is an issue with players refusing to respawn, keeping people in the PvP map. I forwarded this off to dstahl today to see what we can do about that (I did suggest we do a force respawn after a timer in PvP only, but we'll see what they decide.)

- Spawn points on Assimilated Cruiser are an issue. Spawn camping eminent.
It's not only Assimilated Cruiser, almost every map has it. You need to check both teams initial spawn point (usualy it's blue though). Even in Shanty Town you can get pinned to your spawn if the teams aren't equal.
Unless that is fixed refusing to respawn is the only way you can retaliate against spawn camping.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Beltoram
[...]
I think I've covered all of the bases for ground PvP issues, but if you can tell me in a constructive manner if I missed anything, let me know! I'm out to help out the ground PvP experience be even better than what pre-S4 offered with this new overhaul done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor_Forthright View Post
[...]
As for what you're missing, you didn't mention Neural Neutralizer. A.K.A. I can shoot you freely for 20 seconds. It needs to be looked into.
Before the revamp Neural Neutralizer was annoying, now it makes me twitch and want to strangle the player using it. Once he attacks me again the effect should drop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beltoram
Spawn camping is another issue in and of itself. I've brought up multiple ideas on how we can counter that (a super strong turret, a dampening field that doesn't allow firing in it, SOMETHING that says, 'back off.') So if we can hit the spawn camping issue, then force respawn shouldn't feel as unsafe like what you described.
Tread careful here. Any static measure to disable spawn camping will get exploited somehow. Why not toy with a timer in which the player is neutral and out of combat. 15 seconds upon respawn perhaps? Enough time to switch gear or 'outrun' any opposing force on your spawnpoint.

And back onto the 'forced respawn'. Shanty town should have no issues with no opposition around, after all you are 'supposed' to win with the nice shiny virus. Spawn campers in shanty town complaining about non respawning victims should be laughed at not rewarded.
Arena's are another issue though. I've had my share of arenas were the opposing team all left the match and my side waited for a new player to queue and get moved into the match. But even with that experience in mind I don't think you should band-aid that with forced respawning. It will just drive players out of their matches faster. Instead of slacking around on the ground for a minute and hoping the tactical situation gets better people will simply leave the match at an earlier point. A smarter thing to add would be a 'if one side is completely disabled for a certain amount of time the other side wins' mechanic. I can see the lure of the forced respawn 'fix' it would be so 'easy' to implement opposed to other solutions but in my opinion it would hurt more in the end. And after all once you fixed all the static spawn points in the maps there is no reason to play dead at all!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
07-20-2011, 02:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beltoram
Spawn camping is another issue in and of itself. I've brought up multiple ideas on how we can counter that (a super strong turret, a dampening field that doesn't allow firing in it, SOMETHING that says, 'back off.') So if we can hit the spawn camping issue, then force respawn shouldn't feel as unsafe like what you described.
Turrets would be a bad idea imo, it would only result in people using the turrets to hide behind (like the people that run back to the turret clusters in the Capture and Hold space PvP map.

Dampening field would be ideal, and if it could be added to the C&H map as well.. It would be sweet.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:59 AM.