Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
07-18-2011, 06:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destinii
I do admit it would get odd with Torpedo Target <name>, etc, though.
Some people like getting blown up, can't blame the NPCs for that. *chuckles*
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
07-19-2011, 12:06 AM
We go around and around with this...

Commodore is a RANK, not a position, in MANY navies all around the planet (Canada being one). Commodore was used by Starfleet AT LEAST until the Motion Picture, where we heard Commodore Probert mentioned.

There is absolutely no reference in any show or movie to the removal of the rank of Commodore. Geordie didn't call a RALH "Commodore," he called CENTURION BOCHRA, a Romulan officer "Commodore" as a way of mocking him (since the Romulan was a junior officer).

While there is no reference to the removal of Commodores from Starfleet, we also never hear of one after TMP. Likewise, we never hear of a Rear Admiral Lower Half, though we do hear of a Rear Admiral.


In short, there is nothing to say Commodore is not the rank still in use, denoting the first flag rank, immediately after Captain. Thus, the rank structure would look like this:

Ensign
Lieutenant jg
Lieutenant
Lt. Commander
Commander
Captain
(Fleet Captain - This IS a position, not really a rank; it denotes a senior Captain in charge of a group)
Commodore
Rear Admiral
Vice Admiral
Admiral
Fleet Admiral (Or perhaps Grand Admiral)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 23
07-19-2011, 09:33 AM
Let's look at this from a historical perspective.

In the Age of Sail (where all naval ranks originated) a Commodore was the senior Captain of a group of ships sent on a specific mission. Only fleets justified an Admiral's command, so if you had 3-6 ships of various classes on a particular mission the senior most Captain would be appointed to the position of Commodore for the duration of the assignment. Once the assignment was over the officer reverted back to plain ol' Captain.

I realize TOS and TMP used Commodore as an actual rank, but TNG did not and that is apparently where the game draws most of its canon from.

As far as Rear Admiral Lower Half is concerned, in actual militaristic use the full rank is only used in official formal communications, like mission orders. In terms of address the officer is still referred to as Admiral... the Rear and Lower Half parts are merely technicalities.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
07-19-2011, 09:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingShip
Whats with Rear Admiral Lower Half and Upper Half, The lower half should be called Commodore and the Upper Half just plain Rear Admiral. This make since because in Star Trek Commodore comes before Admiral!
right and give all 10 ranks now only 5 ... want to level up again ... not stuck at VA
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
07-19-2011, 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VVargazm
My only issue with this as it stands in the game is that day to day reference to someone holding the rank of rear admiral lower half should just be rear admiral. Save the mouth full for formal occasions.

The canon is that commodore is not in use any more. I don't see any reason to bring it back. Also since it is a temporary appointment I don't see how it would work in the game. By the way vice admiral is also a temporary appointment as well. CINCLANT (command-in-chief of the atlantic) Would be promoted to vice admiral for the duration of holding the position. Common educate is to refer to an admiral by the highest rank he has held, but it is not official in the eyes of the navy.

This topic keeps getting beaten to death over and over because there is a mix of real ranking structure with a fictional one. And the shows tend to be much more about exploration then about military bureaucracy so they never really bother to cover it in any detail.
This is exactly what I was saying. RALH should just be refered to as Admiral, sames with vices, and just for fun the next level cap boost should drop us back to captain for flying some crazed doctor with a Vulcan mind to a planet in a forbidden system. (See sounds bad when I say it like that dosen't it :p)
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
07-21-2011, 01:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sollaf View Post
This is exactly what I was saying. RALH should just be refered to as Admiral, sames with vices, and just for fun the next level cap boost should drop us back to captain for flying some crazed doctor with a Vulcan mind to a planet in a forbidden system. (See sounds bad when I say it like that dosen't it :p)
I think it might be a nice addition to have a mission come up for VAs where you have some kind of moral choice. Following orders like a good soldier gets you some kind of really good unique reward, and doing what is right gets you demoted to Captain. It's got to be a better reward to follow orders or it isn't really a moral choice for the player though. You'd keep your level and all but the title and the ability to switch to another VA ship would be locked out unless you did some kind of redemption mission. I don't know, might be fun, might be stupid.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
07-21-2011, 12:19 PM
Regardless of historical perspective, Commodore - at least as an optional title - will come with Fleet functionality. We have already been told as much many months ago. Hence my signature change months ago as well. I postulate that it likely will present itself over the course of Season 5. So no more worries for players who wanted Commodore as a game option in some form
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
07-21-2011, 01:20 PM
My main problem with the ranking system is this;


No LTJG (even though it was in TNG ala LaForges original rank in the show)
RALH and RAUH having only five "levels" each .

If there is or isnt a Commodore going around is one thing, but these others are kinda annyoing.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 29
07-28-2011, 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvsaris View Post
Let's look at this from a historical perspective.
I realize TOS and TMP used Commodore as an actual rank, but TNG did not and that is apparently where the game draws most of its canon from.
The problem is that there is no proof to substantiate that but I have proof here in a round about fashion, read carefully the ranks and the movement of promotions. It would seem that the accepted term was 'Commodore'.

http://drexfiles.files.wordpress.com...untitled-6.jpg

Caption from the site reads: "(Left) Artifacts from the day to day making of a classic television series. From the wall of Bob Blackmanís wardrobe department."

From: The Drex Files, 6 Feb 2011. http://drexfiles.wordpress.com/2011/02

Now unless someone can show something canon that contradicts this, I'd say its a dead arguement. And no, the wiki doesn't count.

Paul
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