Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
07-24-2011, 08:53 PM
i just ran it earlier and i think the new Ground balance made it nearly impossible. the group i was in are decent in ground and we got pwned.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
07-26-2011, 02:41 PM
the things that need fixing in terradome fall into 2 categories

First of all, there are 10 groups of about 7-8 NPC's and of each group, one is really a fed, and the rest are disguised Undine. Upon starting "Defend the Engineers" the feds become NPC allies and everything else becomes an Undine. The engineers you "Found" get slaughtered in seconds. froups of 5 undine, are balanced for a full away team of 5 ppl. We already know that the telepathic inhibiter will give the Undine a massive headache, if we aren't careful, so my solution is to rewrite the story so that: after finding the engineers, all 5 players go back to Miles. the five engineers will each "Attach" themselves to a player. the 5 players spread out to the 5 consoles. the engineers reroute their personal shields through the inhibiters insta-killing the undine on the "Promenade"

mission proceeds as normal, with low level undine spawning one at a time at 5 places around the promenade, and one Cmdr+ undine spawns.

the other issues are: Security escorts are a lot less resilient.

Prior to S4, a tac (and our raid leader) would cover the transformer at 9 o'clock, throw both sets of escorts, while targeting the engineer, so that they would stay there. One (and ONLY ONE) Cmdr+ undine would spawn near 9 o'clock, and would (I think) be randomly given aggro on one of the engineers. it would proceed to run to that engineer's station, the Raid leader would follow that undine, and wherever it stopped, he and the player at that position would burn it down. A tac could throw security escorts on the engineer to defend him from the low-level spawn, an engi could buy dime and divide aggro of the low level spawns with turrets and drones, and a healer could just turn around after the Cmdr+ was down and cast a heal on the engineer on the console.

I think about the time that the bug was introduced where the undine didn't spawn if you weren't near them the high-level spawn changed to ALWAYS be MULTIPLE undine at CMDR+ lvl.

ppl changed tactics. with 5 ppl plus pets at 9 o'clock, they could burn the cmdr+'s down with just a little coordination.

the S4 patch (I think) fixed the low level undine not spawning, but left the multiple Cmdr+ undine. That is the stopper.

I seem to recall that if you got maybe 3-4 of the coin flip groups wrong, you would get 2 Cmdr lvl undine at a time, or something like that. That was reasonable, because you got the coin flippers wrong, but any group that has gotten 10/10 correct on the coin flippers should have only 1 Cmdr+ spawn.

(When the reset mechanic was working properly, prior to the S2 issues that broke TD, if you failed once, reset and got 10/10 correct there would be NO Cmdr. lvl undine spawned.)

(These are my complete thoughts, although I haven't read the second and third pages of the thread yet.)

Edit:
Hey Gozer, you mentioned getting QA to do a runthrough a full week ago, any word on that? did they find any issues?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
07-27-2011, 03:06 AM
Tribble release notes said, the Terradome mobs have been adjusted to better match the new ground combat system.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
07-27-2011, 08:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timelord_Victorious
Tribble release notes said, the Terradome mobs have been adjusted to better match the new ground combat system.
QA ran through it last week and found the encounter problems. Part of the problem has been fixed, however I haven't had a chance yet to fix the other part.

Systems did a pass on the individual critters themselves (the Undine), I still need to find the time to go back through all the encounters and make them reasonable. I should be able to get to this part in the next few days.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25 thanks Gozer
07-27-2011, 08:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptic_Gozer
QA ran through it last week and found the encounter problems. Part of the problem has been fixed, however I haven't had a chance yet to fix the other part.

Systems did a pass on the individual critters themselves (the Undine), I still need to find the time to go back through all the encounters and make them reasonable. I should be able to get to this part in the next few days.
...for restoring my faith into the system. As for the two part fix, anything we should look out for when running it on tribble?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
07-27-2011, 10:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havam
...for restoring my faith into the system. As for the two part fix, anything we should look out for when running it on tribble?
Sure..

Basically the Systems fix just "normalized" the individual critters. Originally there were two types of Undine (and for that matter Borg used to work this way as well) Regular and Raid ...

The Raid critters were special in that they had a bonus to heath and damage. When we redid the Borg critters we normalized them so that there was no difference between the two groups any longer. The next step for the Borg was to go back through every encounter (encounters are groups of critters with different types of critters in them) and make sure the encounters themselves were more in line with the new ground combat.


Critters in STO have different ranks.. Ens., Lt, Cmdr, Capt.

An Encounter is made by grouping these up in different combinations.

Prior to the combat upgrade a standard Borg or Undine encounter would have looked something like this.

Actor 1 - Ens.
Actor 2 - Ens
Actor 3 - Ens
Actor 4 - Lt
Actor 5 - Lt
Actor 6 - Cmdr
Actor 7 - Cmdr

This was balanced to the old combat system however, with the combat changes this would now be very..very deadly..

Here is an example of what the Encounter should look like now (and what I'll have to go back and update for all or Terradome) for the Encounter to be the same relative difficulty that it was prior to season 4.

Actor 1 - Ens.
Actor 2 - Ens
Actor 3 - Lt
Actor 4 - Cmdr

Sooo.. one problem has been solved (the Undine no longer have bonus damage and Health), but they will still be somewhat broken since there are way too many critters in the encounters and you may have multiple Cmdrs etc which can make a encounter more difficult than we want it to be,
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
07-27-2011, 10:56 AM
Sounds like a challenge. But doable if you know what to expect and prepare for it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
07-28-2011, 03:16 PM
well I wasn't able to give it a go due to disconnects and maintenance issues. But, I really appreciate that Gozer first made TD playable again, with an emergency fix to the final room towards the end of S3, and that the critter adjustments are going to happen within weeks of S4 going live. This is a big improvement over the sorry state TD was in for months.

Looking forward towards the endgame improvements that are projected for S5, I'm just curious what the overall plans for TD are? After all, its been part of endgame since the STFs went live, admittedly with problems, but still it is endgame content.

To be more specific, on the one hand, I don't quite see how one of four STFs needs the forum to realize that S4 ground combat changes would break this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptic_Gozer
Terradome has not been touched at all with season 4. If the encounters are behaving oddly since the release of Season 4 this is the first I've heard of it.
I mean really how come, it went to Holodeck before QA or Tribble noticed? It feels like ugly duckling of STO.

On the other hand, if Cryptic's record for revamped missions is anything to go by, this has epic potential.
  • Are there any plans to develop a storyline that brings it into focus, more encounters with Sulu, more details about the Undine's plans, missions that pick up where TD leaves....
    Moaaar Undine stuff, why not?
  • Is there room to revamp its mechanics, beyond adjusting critters and mobs. Is the emergency fix scheduled to be permanent?
    • I actually like the console puzzle,
    • not sure if the respawn point at level 3 is intended or not. But overall, it seems a bit monotonous form beam in till there
    • the boss room is really meh, would love to see more happening there
    • what about different difficulties?
  • Will TDs rewards be adjusted, and brought in line with other STFs?
    kind of a no brainer, they really fall behind

So lets hear it what would you like to see?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
07-29-2011, 05:11 AM
Ran it last night with the fleet, was pretty fun but really easy so we upped the difficluty slider and went rambo. Completely screwing around and having fun, we did it in under 90mins. Whole thing ran really good and did not encounter any glitches or problems not player created...

Thanks for making it more "reliable and stable" even if it is to easy right now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
07-31-2011, 07:18 PM
Just had Deja Vu bug out.

all 5 engineers were still alive, but the mission failed.

Filed Bug report #1,170,275
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