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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
07-20-2011, 10:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebeneezergoode
So, if I loaded up a B'rel with 5 Hargh'Pengs and a mine launcher or something for added flavour, and kept firing them off to do damage through shields, all the while staying cloaked, you'd be cool with that?:p
Only way the B'Rel refit would be worth anything, considering the way Enhanced Battle Cloak "works". And it might actually start making people come up with builds and tactics that, you know, try to find and defeat cloaked ships, instead of just being so vocal about not wanting to change their tactics that the B'Rel refit gets nerfed into oblivion, etc...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
07-20-2011, 10:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebeneezergoode
So, if I loaded up a B'rel with 5 Hargh'Pengs and a mine launcher or something for added flavour, and kept firing them off to do damage through shields, all the while staying cloaked, you'd be cool with that?:p
And that's when the Federation gets the Seeking Torpedo from ST6.

Balance restored.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
07-20-2011, 10:31 PM
That point about the heavy nerf the B'rel suffered is actually quite a good one, although the ammount of QQing a B'rel'Peng would cause will be off the charts none the less.

The ST6 seeker torpedo response to the problem I think demonstrates why it'd probably still be a bad idea. It'd force an arms race of "necessary" skills and equipment which'd hinder the diversity of the game. There's already enough BO powers out there that just don't synergise well enough with most builds, or are just inferior to the point where nobody uses them. I can't remember the last time I saw torpedo spread in a PVP match. And with HYT, there's really no reason to.

We should have to adapt our builds and play style now and again, but I don't think the adaptation should go to the point where we're likely to go "BOOM" without it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
07-20-2011, 11:35 PM
yes, they should be fixed.

Either by making them unique, or by increasing the GCD to say 10 seconds.

Not sure the stacking needs to be fixed if people cannot singlehandledly drop 4-5 of them on you, but if people. could stack them with teamwork, it might not be too bad

Oh, and KDF needs them..... Atleast if it isnt fixed by then, they *will* be fixed when B'rels start slinging them everywhere, and Fed whining commence.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
07-21-2011, 12:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHale View Post
It should be available to both factions. The faction that doesn't get them is perhaps most negatively impacted by them due to their low hull rates and reliance on cloak. It's proc rate is far too high. They don't require you to invest points to make them effective (that's not entirely unique to these but it's an issue nonetheless). It should be unique.

Although, maybe they wouldn't need to be unique if the proc rate wasn't so high. Still, they should at least have a longer cool down.
This is no different than any other weapon in STO. You get a base line value to the weapon and to improve the weapon you need to spend point in it.

All the Harghípeng Torpedo is a hybrid of the Quantum and Plasma torpedo.
It has the punch of a Quantum torpedo and the DoT proc of the Plasma with the added bonus of an explosion.
Letís take a look at the torpedoes to see how much of a difference there is.
The Quantum torpedo Mk XI (Rare) starts at 3,234 damage, and the Harghípeng torpedo start at 3,791, that just a 557 damage difference.

Now as to the DoT proc well letís see. The Plasma Torpedo (Rare) Mk XI proc starts at 613 and the Harghípeng starts at 892, thatís a 279 difference.

There is not that much difference between the two, and when you add the 15sec cool down to fire the next one itís not over powered at all. It may be over used, but not over powered.

Just remember that the Quantum torpedo does 951 more damage than the Plasma Torpedo mentioned above, should we think about nerfing the Quantum Torpedo because it does a lot more damage than the plasma.

From what I have read here and in other posts, it sound like the explosion happens on impact, and thatís not the case. You have 15 sec to use your hazard emitters to remove all stacked procs on your ship. If you chose not to use or not to equip Hazard Emitter on your ship that would fall in the realm of personal choice and that has nothing to do with the weapons power or ability, and to negatively comment on that simply because it doesnít fit in your ships design to defend against it is completely wrong.

The whole point of having different element in the game is to make it more of a challenge for the player(s). If we were to have only one type of everything, then the game would have no challenge at all. Can you imagine everyone flying around in space with the same ship and the same crew. How much fun do you think that would be?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
07-21-2011, 01:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by D207 View Post
This is no different than any other weapon in STO. You get a base line value to the weapon and to improve the weapon you need to spend point in it.

All the Harghípeng Torpedo is a hybrid of the Quantum and Plasma torpedo.
It has the punch of a Quantum torpedo and the DoT proc of the Plasma with the added bonus of an explosion.
Letís take a look at the torpedoes to see how much of a difference there is.
The Quantum torpedo Mk XI (Rare) starts at 3,234 damage, and the Harghípeng torpedo start at 3,791, that just a 557 damage difference.

Now as to the DoT proc well letís see. The Plasma Torpedo (Rare) Mk XI proc starts at 613 and the Harghípeng starts at 892, thatís a 279 difference.

There is not that much difference between the two, and when you add the 15sec cool down to fire the next one itís not over powered at all. It may be over used, but not over powered.

Just remember that the Quantum torpedo does 951 more damage than the Plasma Torpedo mentioned above, should we think about nerfing the Quantum Torpedo because it does a lot more damage than the plasma.

From what I have read here and in other posts, it sound like the explosion happens on impact, and thatís not the case. You have 15 sec to use your hazard emitters to remove all stacked procs on your ship. If you chose not to use or not to equip Hazard Emitter on your ship that would fall in the realm of personal choice and that has nothing to do with the weapons power or ability, and to negatively comment on that simply because it doesnít fit in your ships design to defend against it is completely wrong.

The whole point of having different element in the game is to make it more of a challenge for the player(s). If we were to have only one type of everything, then the game would have no challenge at all. Can you imagine everyone flying around in space with the same ship and the same crew. How much fun do you think that would be?
Heh.. I think we found ourselves a lolpeng user.

Heres the deal.. Individually the pengs arent a problem, their higher damage is balanced by the inability to use torpedoskills with them. In that regard, they are much like Tricobalts.

This balance is then messed up because you can shoot them with nearly no cooldown (theoretically you can keep 4-5 of them on a enemy ship at *all* times) sooner or later you will dry up whatever counters there are. This isnt a huge concern for SVs, but it is for escorts.. Cruisers can usually outheal the damage, even though they only have two or three Science BO slots.

The only reason they havent had a huge impact on PvP, is the same reason FAW didnt have a huge impact... The only people/fleets abusing these, are utter jokes in PvP, and *need* these OP abilities/items to be able to compete.

Like I said, if it isnt changed when KDF gets these, then it quickly will once Feds start QQing about B'rels flying around with 5-7 pengs each in C&H, Ker'rat and Arenas alike.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
07-21-2011, 01:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by D207 View Post
[...]

Now as to the DoT proc well letís see. The Plasma Torpedo (Rare) Mk XI proc starts at 613 and the Harghípeng starts at 892, thatís a 279 difference.

There is not that much difference between the two, and when you add the 15sec cool down to fire the next one itís not over powered at all. It may be over used, but not over powered. [...]
What you forget is there is no limit on how often the secondary effect of the Peng can stack while the plasma proc has a max stack of 2(?).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
07-21-2011, 01:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampir888 View Post
What you forget is there is no limit on how often the secondary effect of the Peng can stack while the plasma proc has a max stack of 2(?).
Right..

So, Pengs proc more often, do more damage and have no proc stacking limit.. Yet is "fine" accoring to the lol-peng users
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
07-21-2011, 02:05 AM
1) I m all for faction specific content. But because of the story behind the pengs they should come to both factions.

2) I'm sick n tired of quants being the torps to rule them all (tri bombers aside). So finally they have added torp that actually makes sense to use besides quants.

3) Global Torp Cooldown should work for Pengs just like the rest.

4) Al the QQ about stacking dots, cloaked ships xplodin, proc rate, skill point costs etc misses the point imv. HYT 3 quant volleys favor escorts, pengs favor sci/b'rel so far so good. There is a niche for them and it should stay that way.

@vampire Plasma DoT stack, but there are limtiations regarding their different sources from different players (incl the proc. from plasma torp, beams/cannon, EWP ...). Not quite sure how many one could actually have on a single ship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
Right..
So, Pengs proc more often, do more damage and have no proc stacking limit.. Yet is "fine" accoring to the lol-peng users
Not because the Peng DoT is OP, but because Plasma DoT is UP, but that is a different question. How often do you see Plasma torps being used effectively in PvP?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
07-21-2011, 02:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havam
1) I m all for faction specific content. But because of the story behind the pengs they should come to both factions.

2) I'm sick n tired of quants being the torps to rule them all (tri bombers aside). So finally they have added torp that actually makes sense to use besides quants.

3) Global Torp Cooldown should work for Pengs just like the rest.

4) Al the QQ about stacking dots, cloaked ships xplodin, proc rate, skill point costs etc misses the point imv. HYT 3 quant volleys favor escorts, pengs favor sci/b'rel so far so good. There is a niche for them and it should stay that way.

@vampire Plasma DoT stack, but there are limtiations regarding their different sources from different players (incl the proc. from plasma torp, beams/cannon, EWP ...). Not quite sure how many one could actually have on a single ship.


Not because the Peng DoT is OP, but because Plasma DoT is UP, but that is a different question. How often do you see Plasma torps being used effectively in PvP?
Plasma torps isnt used because of the dot, but because of the bang.. Ive used them effectively (50-70k crits) and I know others have as well.. So do you propose the Plasmatorps should have the 2nd best (to Trics) burst as well as rival lolpengs?

People dont use them because they cannot fathom they are good weapons - Now talk about Transphasics and you might have an arguement - Its just like the people claiming this energy weapon is better than that energy weapon, when they in fact are nearly identical, even the difference between MK X MK XI and MK XII weapons are minimal.

Pengs are a lolweapon, it needs to be fixed.. 10 or 15 second GCD would be nice.. That would also limit the stacking.
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