Go Back   Star Trek Online > Feedback > PvP Gameplay
Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
07-23-2011, 11:24 PM
Thanks BIgRed, I just want to confirm:

I thought Acc modifier (and improved accuracy or lower enemy defense) gave extra CtrD (5%) and CrtH (1.25%) for every 10%?

Also when you say Acc CrtD CrtH is the best energy weapon type, is that because it is most balanced for all types of situations? Wouldnt CrtD x3 be ideal if the enemy defense is zero for DHCs?

Thanks again
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
07-24-2011, 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagles View Post
Thanks BIgRed, I just want to confirm:

I thought Acc modifier (and improved accuracy or lower enemy defense) gave extra CtrD (5%) and CrtH (1.25%) for every 10%?

Also when you say Acc CrtD CrtH is the best energy weapon type, is that because it is most balanced for all types of situations? Wouldnt CrtD x3 be ideal if the enemy defense is zero for DHCs?

Thanks again
The extra 1.25% CritH and 5% CritD per 10% Accuracy is for each 10% in excess of the target's Defense, which is an important distinction. The 'overflow' bonus (which is the 1.25% and 5%) is only applied if your total Accuracy exceeds your target's Defense, which is why holds and stuns are so important in driving a target's Defense down.

With Defense ratings, the key value that any attacker is aiming at is the point at which their Defense equals your Accuracy rating (I generally refer to this as the 'Accuracy Threshold'); even a Captain with no Accuracy bonuses, if they can shoot at a stopped target, can get a 15% differential (and its accompanying CritH and CritD bonuses). When your Accuracy rating equals your target's Defense, you have 100% chance To-Hit and your normal CritH and CritD, every % of Accuracy that exceeds the target's Defense starts piling CritH and CritD bonuses on, leading to some massively impressive hits. (Note: This is one of the ways that the Tric bombers can score such massive criticals, particularly if they wait the extra .5 seconds for a target's Speed bonus to Defense to bleed away, after they are stunned by a PSW, suddenly, they are getting huge boosts to CritH and CritD because the target is stopped and suffering a Defense penalty.)

Another one of the important considerations for the Accuracy vs. Defense ratings, is that the curve (which is illustrated on CaptainGeko's chart) gets significantly sharper at the extremes, thus: the greater the difference between your Accuracy and the target's Defense, the greater the benefit of each bonus to Accuracy (and this applies both if you have a low, inherent Accuracy and the target has a high Defense, or if the target has a low Defense and you have a high Accuracy). Having at least one [Acc] modifier on most of your weapons is typically a good idea (some exceptions will be detailed below).

For a build (or team) that focuses on disabling/slowing your enemies, whether through things like Tractor Beams, Target: Engines, Gravity Well, etc. weapons with additional [CrtD] modifiers become even more valuable. If you can consistently ensure that your target's Defense is below your Accuracy threshold, [CrtD] is an attractive choice, as it ensures that the additional criticals that you score are hitting even harder; however, remember that Accuracy overflow does give (much smaller, but still notable) bonuses to both CritH and CritD, so it does not lose any value in such a circumstance. If you are always stopping your Target, [CrtD]x2[CrtH] might actually be the ideal set (or even the [Acc][CrtD][CrtH] posited earlier) for DHC's, to maximize both the number and severity of criticals that are scored.

Torpedoes, on the other hand, derive the greatest benefit from [CrtD]. Due to the small sample size that even a protracted combat in STO will yield for your torpedo weapons (i.e. unlike your energy weapons which are, more or less, constantly firing, your torpedoes will, at best, be firing in 3-second intervals, and even that is highly unusual), the value of both [Acc] and [CrtH] is severely diminished, because there simply are not enough opportunities to consistently see their benefits. Based on the purpose of torpedo weapons (brief, powerful, spike weapons) and the infrequency of their use, the perfect set of modifiers for a torpedo is [CrtD]x3; you want to maximize the effect of every hit with a spike weapon, and you won't be firing often enough for [CrtH] to dramatically improve your damage output by increasing the number of criticals that you score, however, with a 60% CritD uplift, every critical that you 'do' score, will amplify the primary purpose of your torpedoes (spike damage). As with all other weapons, however, [Acc] is never a bad choice.

For Energy Weapons, you essentially hit it on the head, as to why [Acc][CrtD][CrtH] is an idealized modifier grouping, because it gives the flexibility and benefit to maximize your output in nearly any situation. For me, personally, I prefer every weapon to have at least one copy of [Acc], because I feel that 5-10% increase in To-Hit chance is too valuable to pass on, especially when fighting opposing Escorts; however, if I am carrying a loadout that can inflict stuns or holds on a consistent basis, I would seriously consider increasing the number of [CrtD] and [CrtH] that I'm carrying. (For example, my Escorts carry the [Acc][CrtD][Dmg] AP DHC's for PvP, but have a set of [CrtH][Dmg]x2's for PvE/STF stuff, simply because NPC's can't even begin to approach the Defense values of Players.)

Heh, sorry, I know I rambled on a bit there... Hope that helped to answer your question!
-Big Red Goomba



Wall of Text [CrtD]x3 crits you for 156200 (240510) damage! LOL
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
07-24-2011, 01:05 AM
Wow.. so much useful knowledge. Thanks now I have to rethink my current build again. :p *starts searching for a [CritD]x3 tricobalt*

You know you might want to add this to your Jedi Counsel Acc vs Def. Or maybe making a new one for the modifiers if you have the time. I'm sure there are a lot of people who would benefit from it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
07-24-2011, 01:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampir888 View Post
Wow.. so much useful knowledge. Thanks now I have to rethink my current build again. :p *starts searching for a [CritD]x3 tricobalt*

You know you might want to add this to your Jedi Counsel Acc vs Def. Or maybe making a new one for the modifiers if you have the time. I'm sure there are a lot of people who would benefit from it.
Heh, *looks lovingly at his [CrtD]x3 Tricobalt Mk XI... Then weeps softly as he realizes its on one of his Engineers... Smacks own forehead*

That's actually a good idea... I'll probably try to work up a new one, dealing with the modifiers, next time I have another really quiet night at work.

Glad that it's helping, though,
- Big Red Goomba
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
07-24-2011, 03:36 AM
Great math BigRed, thanks for all the info. Great read as always.

I have never crunched logs or anything to confirm my math on the polarons... I just go by simple math that tells me any increase in crit numbers is woth more then the base number.

Basicly this where X = crit chance and Y = the number of shots. Seeing as you can stack crit chance over multiple weapons... 2% ends up being pretty common... think Phaser procs for instance.
1 - ( ( 1 - x ) ^ y )

For Say a 2% phaser proc with 7 shots from a cannon escort
1 - ( ( 1 - x2) ^ 7 ) or 13% chance of a proc every round.
This is the math that makes Phasers so darn annoying... if the average "turret boat" can fire 2 rounds of fire in a 5 second window.... it means that ship has a 28% chance to proc a phaser proc every 5 seconds. lol
To take that to the stupid extreme... a 5 man turret team... has a 80% chance to have a perma proc on a target.

Now lets take the CritHx2... I run these on my tacs as the number of shots + Alpha will jack the crit rate up higher yet.

So if we take the same 7 shots... we have to look at the chance of a crit per volley.
2% = 13%
4% = 25%
6% = 35%
14% (around about a tac with alpha up and CrtiHx2) = 65%
10% (around about a tac with alpha up with AP) = 50%
12% (around about a tac with alpha up with AP that have crithx1) = 58%

Now those are chances for ONE crit... granted its not going to be 7 crits on a volley,,, but there is a high chance of landing at least one or two, which makes for a more consistant burst dmg in my view anyway. I might do slightly less dmg if we break down all the numbres... its just nice to know that every time I open up on someone... the chances of me NOT landing at least one crit are lower then me Landing one... ie its over 50%.

For me its knowing that I am almost assured to hit crits when I fire... no I don't see 15k cannon crits often, but I see 6-8k ALL the time. On almost every round of fire.

I mean really in on volley I'm going to fire 20-30 shots in a pretty short time frame...
I mean 20 shots at 14% crit rate is 95% chance to land a crit... I honestly don't remember the last time I opened up with rapid fire and alpha up that I didn't see at least 3 or 4 crits pop up.

At the end of the day though... bottom line is I think most of the waepons in STO are about even. lol
Cryptic really hasn't done much to make it worth while to run anything other then phasers and disruptors.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
07-24-2011, 04:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
AP are most useful on tacticals (APA), and escorts (easier to spec into).

On my Craptor I run AP DHCs in front, along with disruptor turrets in the back. I get the extra CritD on the DHCs where I need them, while the turrets will usually give the hull resistance proc which further helps the DHCs as well as my quantums. Very expensive to spec into two energy types, but the fact my weapons fire looks like Christmas makes it all worthwhile :p


u havn't seen zorenas escort spec jorf.. all the energy types and csv! woo-woo yeah!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
07-24-2011, 05:11 AM
I've never much liked AP cannons. It's probably just me, but they don't seem to fire as "smoothy" as say disruptors or tetryons. They seem to "stutter". Lol probably just their sound and graphics make it seem that way. Disruptors seem to be the smoothest firing DHC's... they seem to just flow out of the chambers .

I've never bothered number crunching so I just use what seems to work or looks cool. My "main" fed tac swaps between 3dhc/3t tetryon mk xi [crth]x2 or [acc]x2 just cause tets look cool and sound awesome, and they still blow stuff up nicely. Another fed tac uses 3+3 disruptor mk xi [acc]x2 weapons that work real well. Klink tac and sci characters use [crth]x2 and [acc]x2 disruptors respectively and they do well too. So other than on paper, there's probably not a big difference in what you use as long as you use it well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
07-24-2011, 07:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thamupp View Post
u havn't seen zorenas escort spec jorf.. all the energy types and csv! woo-woo yeah!
Disco party woo woo.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
07-24-2011, 07:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvs5191 View Post
Disco party woo woo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrphLUWZv3Q
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
07-24-2011, 09:48 AM
Cool beans BigRed, though I was a little off on the Acc always adding the CrtH and CrtD, the principle behind it I had correct (admittedly thanks to your AccvDef thread). I believe with the current healing metagame, escorts should strive for the biggest spike damage possible, which means having an immobile target + CrtDs. But I can understand a team going for a more defensive war of attrition setup as well with Acc and CrtH. Overall it seems like all the modifiers are actually pretty well balanced depending on how you play.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:55 AM.