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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Dear dev folk,

Not a whining post, I just figured this is all a process, so I'd put my experiences out here for any Cryptics looking in ...

I like the new ground combat in general, but I find I'm still having significant trouble making my non-Medic Science Captain (my main) hold the line during boss-level fights.

Still too many three-seconds-and-knocked-out encounters, even though I'm max level, with maxed out skills and equipment, and I know my way around the game.

The problem appears to be that boss-level enemies seem largely immune to the sort of hold, knockback, and control powers that non-Medic Science Captains specialize in using.

Posters have suggested I respec my captain, but it doesn't seem to be just a narrow few non-Medic powers which falter, but all of them.

My XO BOff, when I take her on Away Teams, is also a non-Medic blueshirt. She specifically has any non-Medic Science powers I lack, to fill in any gaps ... but she's always the first Away Team member to go out.

Besides which, if only a few very specific builds are viable for the Science class under the new rules, that suggests to me that blueshirt class function still still needs to be looked at more closely.

As an example, the last couple of boss fights I've been in, have been won thusly:

As soon as the fight starts, I have to run for cover as fast as possible to avoid the burst of fire and grenades which will be concentrated on me.

If I make it, and am not incapacitated, I have to hang back and harry the lesser enemies as my Away Team does most of the work. (with me triggering their abilities)

Once the lesser enemies are defeated, I charge the boss NPC and repeatedly melee him or her by hitting the boss with the butt of my rifle.

Unlike my Sci powers, the melee strike /will/ actually knock down the boss most of the time, or stagger/interrupt the boss, and prevent him or her from throwing the (often) one-shot-kill grenades or launching other massive-damage, area-effect attacks.

With me melee striking repeatedly, and my team attacking, the boss is eventually defeated.

So ... ground combat kinda/sorta works for me, technically, but it's not feeling terribly /fun/ or heroic at this point.

I used to lead my Away Teams from the front, and I used to use my powers in interesting and tricky tactical ways.

Now, a melee hit with a rifle stock is far more reliable and useful in combat than any Science powers available to me.

I know STO is always a work-in-progress, but I hope we can get a little improvement on this issue sooner than later.

I'd like to feel like an heroic starship captain again, y'know? :-)

Thanks for reading,


KOS
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
07-24-2011, 05:30 PM
I dislike the new range of Tachyon Harmonics very much. Now I have to hug an enemy before I can use it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
07-28-2011, 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CobaltBlueHero View Post
Dear dev folk,

Not a whining post, I just figured this is all a process, so I'd put my experiences out here for any Cryptics looking in ...

I like the new ground combat in general, but I find I'm still having significant trouble making my non-Medic Science Captain (my main) hold the line during boss-level fights.

Still too many three-seconds-and-knocked-out encounters, even though I'm max level, with maxed out skills and equipment, and I know my way around the game.

The problem appears to be that boss-level enemies seem largely immune to the sort of hold, knockback, and control powers that non-Medic Science Captains specialize in using.

Posters have suggested I respec my captain, but it doesn't seem to be just a narrow few non-Medic powers which falter, but all of them.

My XO BOff, when I take her on Away Teams, is also a non-Medic blueshirt. She specifically has any non-Medic Science powers I lack, to fill in any gaps ... but she's always the first Away Team member to go out.

Besides which, if only a few very specific builds are viable for the Science class under the new rules, that suggests to me that blueshirt class function still still needs to be looked at more closely.

As an example, the last couple of boss fights I've been in, have been won thusly:

As soon as the fight starts, I have to run for cover as fast as possible to avoid the burst of fire and grenades which will be concentrated on me.

If I make it, and am not incapacitated, I have to hang back and harry the lesser enemies as my Away Team does most of the work. (with me triggering their abilities)

Once the lesser enemies are defeated, I charge the boss NPC and repeatedly melee him or her by hitting the boss with the butt of my rifle.

Unlike my Sci powers, the melee strike /will/ actually knock down the boss most of the time, or stagger/interrupt the boss, and prevent him or her from throwing the (often) one-shot-kill grenades or launching other massive-damage, area-effect attacks.

With me melee striking repeatedly, and my team attacking, the boss is eventually defeated.

So ... ground combat kinda/sorta works for me, technically, but it's not feeling terribly /fun/ or heroic at this point.

I used to lead my Away Teams from the front, and I used to use my powers in interesting and tricky tactical ways.

Now, a melee hit with a rifle stock is far more reliable and useful in combat than any Science powers available to me.

I know STO is always a work-in-progress, but I hope we can get a little improvement on this issue sooner than later.

I'd like to feel like an heroic starship captain again, y'know? :-)

Thanks for reading,


KOS

Out of curiosity, what race is the BO that goes down first? I had a similar issue with my Andorian Science officer being targeted first every time until it was defeated until I checked the passives and realised it had Superior Aggression as a trait. Threat Generation is a lot more effective now it seems and since switching to a different (Betazoid) medic I rarely lose a BO now.

As for your non Medic kits not being much use, I have to agree. I initially used the Physicist kit but quickly realised that although it's by far the most aggressive Science kit in terms of direct damage skills (Thermal Vent primarily) it's not much use in PvE above normal. The loss of heals for more aggressive skills has left my Science officer unable to make much of a dent in Commander/ Captain level NPCs before defeat so I switched to the Borg Medical Analyser kit; much more survivable and the shield strip from Tachyon Harmonic is very effective now.
The only other thing which made a massive difference for me (you may already do this but your post indicated they were still present as your BOs attacked the Captain) was to clear the Ensign and LT level NPCs first and work up through the ranks until only the Captain is left. They go down very quickly under focus fire but if left unchecked the flanking fire can quickly wear you down and leave you vulnerable to the Captains attacks.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
07-28-2011, 10:11 PM
My current high level sci (RA5) has an away team of 4 sci officers (making 5 total). She seems to do very well in ground combat and currently uses a physicist kit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
07-29-2011, 03:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destinii
My current high level sci (RA5) has an away team of 4 sci officers (making 5 total). She seems to do very well in ground combat and currently uses a physicist kit.
Ir's the Captain NPCs on Elite that hurt most. The damage buffs don't do enough damage to the NPCs that it's worth the cost of the heals on the medic kit; the damage from a Medic Sci is lower but they can last longer so deal more damage over time. Thermal Vent is pretty potent now but deals only around 200HP damage with a small DoT, whereas a Captain Gorn NPC will have over 5k (it might even be 8k but I haven't run across them in a while) of HP to get through and he'll be hammering away at you with similar damage numbers to those of yourself the whole time. I've not run across anything that couldn't be beaten yet but it's definitely easier with a medic kit than a physicist kit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
07-29-2011, 09:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Militis View Post
Ir's the Captain NPCs on Elite that hurt most. The damage buffs don't do enough damage to the NPCs that it's worth the cost of the heals on the medic kit; the damage from a Medic Sci is lower but they can last longer so deal more damage over time. Thermal Vent is pretty potent now but deals only around 200HP damage with a small DoT, whereas a Captain Gorn NPC will have over 5k (it might even be 8k but I haven't run across them in a while) of HP to get through and he'll be hammering away at you with similar damage numbers to those of yourself the whole time. I've not run across anything that couldn't be beaten yet but it's definitely easier with a medic kit than a physicist kit.
Without knowing what your ground team is like, I'd suggest 4 sci officers - three with Med Tricorder 1, Tachyon 2, Electrogravitic 3, tricorder scan 3. The fourth should be a medic with Med Tricorder 1 and 3, Vascular 1, and Tricorder scan 3. Arm them all with exploit weapons - the disruptor pistols (for 3 of them) and type 3 phaser rifle (for the fourth) from Night of the Comet are excellent weapons. I'd suggest using an exploit weapon yourself as well.

Exposing and exploiting as much as possible should help on tough ground battles.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
07-30-2011, 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destinii
Without knowing what your ground team is like, I'd suggest 4 sci officers - three with Med Tricorder 1, Tachyon 2, Electrogravitic 3, tricorder scan 3. The fourth should be a medic with Med Tricorder 1 and 3, Vascular 1, and Tricorder scan 3. Arm them all with exploit weapons - the disruptor pistols (for 3 of them) and type 3 phaser rifle (for the fourth) from Night of the Comet are excellent weapons. I'd suggest using an exploit weapon yourself as well.

Exposing and exploiting as much as possible should help on tough ground battles.
I don't actually have a problem on the ground, the aggressive Science kits just aren't my thing and in PvE the extra damage isn't worth the loss of all those heals (IMO). Although I like to use them against other players against NPCs it just isn't worth it, they resist the holds and slows and just march on towards you.
As for the setup there, I'm surprised you use MT1, I found it to be very weak. I run at the moment with 2x Sci, 1x Eng and 1x Tac. The Sci's both run;

Tachyon Harmonic 1
Tricorder Scan 2
Medical Tricorder 3
NHM 1 (this is by far the most important)

With this setup I can steam roll through any PvE content, the BOs mostly heal themselves although I keep an eye on them as they do like standing in plasma fires so heals are often needed. The Tac though is the key, the damage that a Tac BO with a good setup can bring really helps, but they need to be monitored closely as they still aren't very bright and draw a lot of aggro. On the Tac I run;

Photon Grenade 1
Suppressing Fire 1
Target Optics 2
Lunge 3 (This is just broken. This regularly hits for over 400 but I've seen over 1000 before on a debuffed target).

The Engineer just brings a shield heal and a turret to the party, but the shield recharge helps a lot if I get the good news from a Pulsewave toting NPC.
The two Sci's both carry full auto rifles (AoE expose weapons with good damage numbers), the Tac a Compression pistol (high DPS exploit weapon) and the Engineer a Minigun (because he's a Nausican and everything else looked small in his hands). With them setup as they are they can actually clear a normal mission by themselves up until the Captain, on Advanced I have to use my heals on them but they can clear everything without me needing to get involved until the Commander's/ Captain and for Elite they can deal with the low level NPCs but the LTC/ Commander/ Captain NPCs tear them apart. When they're controlled though they scythe through the NPCs like they're -20 to them, the damage they can deal is impressive when focused.
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