Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
07-27-2011, 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
We are aware of Transphasic's issues in particular, as well as some of the other damage types. We have started talking about a review of all damage types for both beams and torpedoes, possibly linked to a skill review of as-yet undefined scope. I cannot give you a time estimate on any of this, unfortunately, but it is on our radar.
As part of this review, I would ask a few things be considered:

1.) As each weapon type is a matter of preference and application (procs or increased baseline damage) that they all be moved to the same tier skillpoint-wise. If they're all supposed to simply be a choice rather than a requirement, it makes no sense that some require a lot more points to increase than others. (In effect, it becomes a tax on preference and not necessarily functionality)

2.) Pursuant to #1, provide options in the crafting tree at lower tiers to grant different weapon types for each faction available at earlier levels. (Antiproton, polaron, tricobalt, transphasic, chroniton, etc)

3.) As you indicate each of them need to be reviewed. What never made sense to me is that the highest dps combination on torpedoes, for example, in PvE are the photon torpedoes -- requiring the least skill point investment and the higher end 'guaranteed' dps of antiproton beams (proc-less) had the highest skill point investment. (PvP favors Quantum Torpedoes for other reasons -- but they are still the same skill point investment as photons.) A rebalancing of damage (both in reload times as well as damage done) is definitely welcome.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
07-27-2011, 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFO-OptimusPrime View Post
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Transphasic_torpedo

Read this to gain a better understand of how a Transphasic Torpedo is suppose to work.
The reason that it's listed under "apocrypha" is that it is not an official or canon explanation. It is one created in a non-canon setting (the book listed). While it would be "okay" to list it on the memory-beta site as established, memory-alpha does not list it except in the apocrypha section for that reason.

Apocrypha on memory-alpha tells you that this is an explanation, usage, or viewing in a setting other than canon (tv/movies).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
07-27-2011, 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
We are aware of Transphasic's issues in particular, as well as some of the other damage types. We have started talking about a review of all damage types for both beams and torpedoes, possibly linked to a skill review of as-yet undefined scope. I cannot give you a time estimate on any of this, unfortunately, but it is on our radar.
Heretic, Thank you very much for the response and the information.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
07-27-2011, 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuntKathy
As part of this review, I would ask a few things be considered:

1.) As each weapon type is a matter of preference and application (procs or increased baseline damage) that they all be moved to the same tier skillpoint-wise. If they're all supposed to simply be a choice rather than a requirement, it makes no sense that some require a lot more points to increase than others. (In effect, it becomes a tax on preference and not necessarily functionality)

2.) Pursuant to #1, provide options in the crafting tree at lower tiers to grant different weapon types for each faction available at earlier levels. (Antiproton, polaron, tricobalt, transphasic, chroniton, etc)

3.) As you indicate each of them need to be reviewed. What never made sense to me is that the highest dps combination on torpedoes, for example, in PvE are the photon torpedoes -- requiring the least skill point investment and the higher end 'guaranteed' dps of antiproton beams (proc-less) had the highest skill point investment. (PvP favors Quantum Torpedoes for other reasons -- but they are still the same skill point investment as photons.) A rebalancing of damage (both in reload times as well as damage done) is definitely welcome.
Dead on correct. What she said.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
07-27-2011, 06:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
We are aware of Transphasic's issues in particular, as well as some of the other damage types. We have started talking about a review of all damage types for both beams and torpedoes, possibly linked to a skill review of as-yet undefined scope. I cannot give you a time estimate on any of this, unfortunately, but it is on our radar.
Does this also include audio fx and visuals too? No offense but the quantum torpedoes sound is F'd up (yes with a capital F). Not to mention the audio for disruptor and phaser cannons is way off as well. But I have faith you guys are well aware of these talked to death issues and will address them along with what you were speaking of
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
07-27-2011, 07:43 PM
With the Rhode Island Type Nova Class coming out, I'd love to see Transphasics be given a buff particularly against borg...heh heh.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
07-27-2011, 07:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuntKathy
As part of this review, I would ask a few things be considered:

1.) As each weapon type is a matter of preference and application (procs or increased baseline damage) that they all be moved to the same tier skillpoint-wise. If they're all supposed to simply be a choice rather than a requirement, it makes no sense that some require a lot more points to increase than others. (In effect, it becomes a tax on preference and not necessarily functionality)

(snip)

3.) As you indicate each of them need to be reviewed. What never made sense to me is that the highest dps combination on torpedoes, for example, in PvE are the photon torpedoes -- requiring the least skill point investment and the higher end 'guaranteed' dps of antiproton beams (proc-less) had the highest skill point investment. (PvP favors Quantum Torpedoes for other reasons -- but they are still the same skill point investment as photons.) A rebalancing of damage (both in reload times as well as damage done) is definitely welcome.
Quoting myself here, I'm going to expand on ideas 1 and 3.

One way to address the issue and make it 'even' across the board as well as increase customization for what a ship captain determines is more of a priority in their weapon systems, I propose a multi-tiered approach.

Energy weapons:

- Change all base damage for each energy weapon type to a constant for their respective tier/mark number. Ignoring weapon modifiers (like CritH, CritD, Acc, Dmg) as they would be optional and not relevant to discussion here. (This includes antiproton as I will discuss later in this post)
- Adjust base proc values for each weapon type to be identical (for the most part this is).
- Adjust energy weapon console and generic energy weapon skills such that they increase the weapon's damage.
- Adjust specific energy weapon skills and specific energy weapon type consoles so that they increase the weapon's baseline proc or special ability chance and/or effectiveness (e.g. Disruptor console increases the proc chance and/or increases the amount of damage taken increased from baseline.)
- Move all weapon types into the same tier in the skill tree (the 300 point bracket).

Phasers - Keep the proc of 2.5% chance to stun as baseline.
Disruptors - Keep the proc of 2.5% chance to increase damage taken by 10% as baseline.
Tetryon - Keep the proc of 2.5% chance to drain shields as baseline.
Polaron - Keep the proc of 2.5% chance to drain power as baseline.
Antiproton - Change the default of base damage increased by 5% to 2.5% chance to disrupt target sensors (or even 2.5% chance to bypass shields and do 10% of beam damage directly to the hull)

Adjust generic energy weapon skills such that the following is true:

Maximizing Skill increases weapon damage by 15% (or whatever % is appropriate)
Adjust consoles so that the skill increase they provide for the generic energy weapon skill scales %-wise to the above change. (e.g. a console that provides 26 skill would provide another 8.125% damage, for example.)

Adjust specific energy weapon skills such that the following is true:

Maximizing Skill increases proc chance by another 2.5% and duration of effect by 20% (in most cases, this will be a couple of seconds at most). (1 skill rating = 0.04% increase in proc and
Adjust consoles so that the skill increase they provide for the specific energy weapon skill scales %-wise to the above average (e.g. a console that provides 26 skill would provide another 1.25% chance to proc and add another 10% duration to the proc effect).

This allows captains to decide if they want to increase baseline damage for their weapons, their proc chance, or a balanced approach of both. (Obviously, tactical vessels will have a greater affordability and flexibility due to increased consoles, but this is not new and will not change.)

Example Scenarios:

Captain spends 9 skill points in energy weapons, 9 skill points in energy beam weapons, and 9 points in phasers.

This provides a total of 48 energy weapons skill and 52 phaser weapons skill.

Scenario A.) Captain equips 1 +26 energy weapons console and 1 +26 phaser weapons console.
Scenario B.) Captain equips 2 +26 energy weapons consoles.
Scenario C.) Captain equips 2 +26 phaser weapons consoles.

In scenario A.) The captain would have: Baseline phaser beam weapon damage + (Skill points invested increasing damage by 15%) + (8.125% from the energy weapons console) + (baseline 2.5% chance for phasers to proc stun ability) + (Skill points invested increasing proc chance by another 2.5%) + (1.25% chance to proc stun ability from phaser console (and additional 10% duration))

In summary: Phaser damage increased 23.125%, stun proc chance is 6.25% and duration is 11 seconds (vs 10).

Scenario B.) The captain would have: Baseline phaser beam weapon damage + (Skill points invested increasing damage by 15%) + (16.25% from the energy weapons console) + (baseline 2.5% chance for phasers to proc stun ability) + (Skill points invested increasing proc chance by another 2.5%)

In summary: Phasers damage increased by 31.25%, stun proc chance is at 5% and duration is 10 seconds.

Scenario C.) The captain would have: Baseline phaser beam weapon damage + (Skill points invested increasing damage by 15%) + (baseline 2.5% chance for phasers to proc stun ability) + (Skill points invested increasing proc chance by another 2.5%) + (2.5% chance to proc stun ability from phaser consoles (and additional 20% duration)).

In summary: Phasers damage increased by 15%, stun proc chance increased to 7.5% and duration of stun in 12 seconds (vs 10).

This mitigates the chance that too much damage potential could occur when the captain prefers cc or disabling their target instead.

Torpedo suggestions will be in another post.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
07-27-2011, 07:48 PM
Personally, My Galaxy Retrofit uses 4 Phaser arrays, a dual phaser bank, 2 Heavy tricobalt launchers, and a Quantum torpedo bay. I am specced into phaser and tricobalt, I found transphasics to be weak in game and near chroniton in uselessness but If they are going to fix it I will be fine with that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
07-27-2011, 11:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
We are aware of Transphasic's issues in particular, as well as some of the other damage types. We have started talking about a review of all damage types for both beams and torpedoes, possibly linked to a skill review of as-yet undefined scope. I cannot give you a time estimate on any of this, unfortunately, but it is on our radar.
If I may suggest, when it changes from "on our radar" to "currently working on" post on the forum and ask for help (current problems, balance ideas....). I'm sure there are a lot of players (PvE and PvP) and number crunchers who have some valuable advice concerning possible balance issues. Also I hope you give the changes some time (1+ month) on Tribble so the big problems can be worked out before it gets live.

You will still have a forum full of nerf this and nerf that but you might have fewer.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
07-28-2011, 02:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFO-OptimusPrime View Post
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Transphasic_torpedo

Read this to gain a better understand of how a Transphasic Torpedo is suppose to work. The shields can only block one subcomponent of the torpedo, allowing the rest of the payload to be delievered. Also in my post I never said anything about the borg, obviously they can adapt to it but for all the other races out there that don't have the capabilities of the borg, there is no excuse. If that were the case then we'd be remodulating our ship weapons just as we remodulate our ground weapons...really hope a dev doesn't read this and get any ideas..
I'm not sure what this supposed "greater understanding" is you're talkig about.
There is nothing on that site I don't already know.

The Borg can adapt much faster than everyone else.
Hence the can adapt to a new weapon within a few hours.
Which was already feared they'd do in"Endgame" itself, which is why Amiral Jeanway sacrifices herself: to prevent that from happening.

But appearently you don't understand that even without adaptation like the Borg have it, everyone has had 30 years to figure out how to lessen the impact of this weapon.
Yes they were effective in the novels set in 2381, which is 3 years after "Endgame".
We're talking a timespan 10 times that much.


It seems the ratio of how many components are likely to get through has reversed, resulting in the shields to block most but not all of it.

I can technobabble an explanation if you'd like :

As of later 'Trek ships use Multiphasic Shields

Increase the possible number of multiphasic states the shields can have and shift several of those states into subspace so the shields are simulatneaously in several subspace states that correspond to those taken by the subspace pulse of a detonating Transphasic Torpedo.
Layer the shields, interlock them so they can block several frequencies at once.
As a result only a fraction of the various subspace states can actually bypass the shields.
Over the last 30 years, the amount of subspace states the shields can occupy has probably increased until only one or two components of a Transphasics's subspacs pulse can bypass the shields, resulting in the limited effect we have now.

See, it's simple.

I'm not against buffing Transphasics, they're unimpressive and not competitive.
Make them fun to use, make them balanced.
But to make them like they were in "Endgame" would be even more wrong.
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