Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
08-03-2011, 06:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 777Sandman View Post
I realize that my ship doesn't do much, as far as any kind of remote dps, which is why I am seeking constructive advice from other players. Thanks for your input as I already have consider it. I was hoping for somethng a little more constructive though. Any other suggestions?
Honestly man, your best bet if you want to fly a cruiser is going to be an Excelsior-R. The maneuverability and damage output of this ship in the hands of a Tac Officer can be pretty deathly if piloted right, not to mention the survivability you get with it. I have tried most of the end game ships just so I can get a feel of how the skills lay out and what I can do with it. I learned that first and foremost, the escorts offer the most when it comes to damage, hands down. The Excelsior-R was the only cruiser that could come even close to the DPS of the escort. You could even look at the Intrepid-R as a Tac officer. I used a really solid build for a while with this ship and could almost put down other ships as fast as the Excelsior-R could, but it is a much different play style.

This is what I ran on the Excelsior:
FRONT
2x Dual Phaser Banks
1x Phaser Array
1x Quantum

REAR
3x Phaser Array
1x Quantum

Full Aegis Set - Engine, Shield, Deflector
EPS, RCS,Weapon Power, and Shield Power Engie Consoles
3x Phaser Relays (Works for all Phaser Weapons) Tac Consoles
Borg Assim. Module and Deflector Field console in Sci Console slots

Hope this helps out a little. Good Luck!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
08-03-2011, 06:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 777Sandman View Post
I was hoping for somethng a little more constructive though. Any other suggestions?
In your first post you mentioned that your tac uses a defiant build. Later on you post a starcruiser build. Do you need advice for both?

Starcruiser is easy, change to a full scale healer (Eng only).

I.e. for a exploration cruiser refit:
8 beam arrays or 8 turrets

BFaW1, APD1 (or Target Shields / Engines)
EPtAux1, EPtS2, Aux2Sif2, Extend Shields 3
EPtAux1, EPtS2, Eng Team 3
Eng Team 1
TSS1, HE2

2 Phaser Consoles,
3-4 SIF consoles, +7 Aux or Neutronium Armor
Borg Console, Halon

Borg Deflector, Borg Engines, Borg Shields or Aegis Shields

Powers 25/100/25/50

A starcruiser build has to drop the ET for another TSS1 or HE1 and switch i.e. Aux2Sif to ET3 or EPtAux1 to ET1.

Heal others all the time. Assist the enemy teams damage dealer's targets.

Or if you want to get some DPS this is a quite simple damage build.
Actually it's so simple that you can bind all BO skills to one key and press it all the
time.

Excelsior-R
8 Beam Arrays
Tac Team1, BFaW2, BFaW3
EPtW1, EPtS2, DEM2 (or Aux2Sif2), DEM3 (or Aux2Sif3, but only one Aux2Sif)
EPtW1, EPtS2
Eng Team1
TSS1, HE2 or vice versa

2 EPS Consoles, +7 Weapons, +35% Shield or Neutronium Armor
3 Phaser Consoles
Borg Console, Halon
Borg Deflector, Borg Engines, Aegis Shields

Powers 100/50/25/25

Chain EPtS and EPtW to keep them up all the time and focus the escort's targets.


Basic Defiant build:
2 DHC, 1 DBB, 1 Quantum
3 Turrets

Tac Team 1, CRF1, BO3, APO3
Tac Team 1, CRF1, HY3
HY1
EPtS1, EPtS2
TSS1, HE2

4 Phaser or AP or whatever consoles
Borg Console, Halon
+35 Shields, EPS

or hit and run

Tac Team 1, APD1, BO3, CRF3
Tac Team 1, CRF1, BO3
HY1
EPtS1, EPtW2
PH1, HE2

Whatever you like.

Constructive enough?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
08-03-2011, 06:48 AM
Ok, I have revised my build, and am loving it. I fly the Tactical Escort Refit.

Fore weapons:
3 Phaser Dual Cannons Mk XI Very Rare (Dual Cannons fire faster, have the same DPS, and use less power so you only need one EPS flow regulator)
1 Quantum Torpedo Launcher Mk XI Very Rare

Aft Weapons:
3 Phaser Turrets Mk XI Very Rare

For Consoles, this is what I use All are Mk XI Rare)
Full Borg Set: A lot of people don't think the shields are good on an escort. Well, I think they are great.

Engineering Consoles:
1 EPS flow regulator
1 Nutronium Alloy

Science Consoles:
1 Borg
1 Halom System

Tactical:
3 Prefire Chamber
1 Quantum Chamber

Ok, here are my bridge officers.

Tactical:
THY 1, CRF 1, THY 3, CRF 2, TT 1, TT 2, APO 3. (The reasonf for this, is when I first strike, I hit TYH 3, CRF 2, TT2, & APO 3. This sends CRF 1, THY1, and TT 1 in 15 seconds cooldown. Basically, I just keep switching between the two.

Engineering:
EPtS 1 & 2 (not only do they raise your shields, but they give you shield resistance, and shield power which is great for the Borg shields)

Science:
Hazard Emitters
Polarized hull
I know that these share a cool down. But, if you time it right, it doesn't matter. Polarized Hull only lasts for 15 seconds, Well, that is how long it sends HE into a cool down. So you hit Polarized hull, then HE 15 seconds later.

So, this is what I do.

Cloak, get behind someone. Hit all my abilities. Fire on my mark, ATO, ATA, CRF 2, THY 3, & TT 2.
Decloak. and fire. Dead in 5 seconds. I have tried this build in Karrat, and in PvP and it works great.
I went up against a Nebula class, Fleet escort, and some Klingons. The Polarized hull & HE kept my hull up, & EPtS kept my shields up. This works great, and is a great build for me. I believe that I am going to stick to this.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
08-03-2011, 11:34 AM
Quote:
Hellspawny Quote:In your first post you mentioned that your tac uses a defiant build. Later on you post a starcruiser build. Do you need advice for both?


I switched to a different ship since my Defiant-R lacked any survivabilty, it couldn't get past the 5 seconds mark in a fire fight, and decided on the Starcuiser. I realized later it was an extreme move that yielded the same results. Hence the many redundant systems which became my frustration which is why I addressed the STO community.

Impressive very impressive I like this build for the Defiant. Actually all your builds are of exceptional quality. Thank you for your suggestions and I apologize if I have offended you Hellspawny.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
08-03-2011, 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HamRadio18
Ok, I have revised my build, and am loving it. I fly the Tactical Escort Refit.

Fore weapons:
3 Phaser Dual Cannons Mk XI Very Rare (Dual Cannons fire faster, have the same DPS, and use less power so you only need one EPS flow regulator)
1 Quantum Torpedo Launcher Mk XI Very Rare

Aft Weapons:
3 Phaser Turrets Mk XI Very Rare

For Consoles, this is what I useAll are Mk XI Rare)
Full Borg Set: A lot of people don't think the shields are good on an escort. Well, I think they are great.

Engineering Consoles:
1 EPS flow regulator
1 Nutronium Alloy

Science Consoles:
1 Borg
1 Halom System

Tactical:
3 Prefire Chamber
1 Quantum Chamber

Ok, here are my bridge officers.

Tactical:
THY 1, CRF 1, THY 3, CRF 2, TT 1, TT 2, APO 3. (The reasonf for this, is when I first strike, I hit TYH 3, CRF 2, TT2, & APO 3. This sends CRF 1, THY1, and TT 1 in 15 seconds cooldown. Basically, I just keep switching between the two.

Engineering:
EPtS 1 & 2 (not only do they raise your shields, but they give you shield resistance, and shield power which is great for the Borg shields)

Science:
Hazard Emitters
Polarized hull
I know that these share a cool down. But, if you time it right, it doesn't matter. Polarized Hull only lasts for 15 seconds, Well, that is how long it sends HE into a cool down. So you hit Polarized hull, then HE 15 seconds later.

So, this is what I do.

Cloak, get behind someone. Hit all my abilities. Fire on my mark, ATO, ATA, CRF 2, THY 3, & TT 2.
Decloak. and fire. Dead in 5 seconds. I have tried this build in Karrat, and in PvP and it works great.
I went up against a Nebula class, Fleet escort, and some Klingons. The Polarized hull & HE kept my hull up, & EPtS kept my shields up. This works great, and is a great build for me. I believe that I am going to stick to this.
You're going to want to switch into Dual Heavies.

Why?
- Even though the tooltips say that Dual and Dual Heavies have the same DPS, in practice, they do not. DHCs are far superior.
- DHCs, IIRC, actually end up using less power due to their firing cycles. (Maybe, not positive about this)
- DHCs have an innate CrtD modifier
- DHCs give you better burst damage, which is what Escorts, especially Tac/Escort, is all about.

I also recommend swapping out the Neutronium Alloy for a Field Generator Mk XI (+35% shield capacity).

Also, drop your TT 2 down to a TT1; there's quite literally no appreciable difference and the shield distribution rate is the same.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16 OK
08-03-2011, 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 777Sandman View Post
Sorry for the delay but here's my build:

Star Cruiser Build

Reverse Shield Polarity I and II
Emergency Power to Shields I and II
Transfer Shield Strength I and II
Hazard Emitters I
Structural Integrity to Field II
Tactical Team I and II
Emergency power to Weapons I
Direct Energy Modulation III
Alpha Strike III
Going down fighting

Thanks for all thge helpful ideas and suggestions. I really do appreciate it.
1.RSP only one copy is needed
2.take RSP2 out for a epts3 and keep epts2 (you can almost spam epts with only a 15 sec delay that will stop most alpha in combo with tack team.
3.Aagin the cool down for tss 1&2 is to hight might as well only carry 1.

and biggest of a a TAC in a cruiser but a star cruiser at that you have made yourself prim target.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
08-03-2011, 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvs5191 View Post
You're going to want to switch into Dual Heavies.

Why?
- Even though the tooltips say that Dual and Dual Heavies have the same DPS, in practice, they do not. DHCs are far superior.
- DHCs, IIRC, actually end up using less power due to their firing cycles. (Maybe, not positive about this)
- DHCs have an innate CrtD modifier
- DHCs give you better burst damage, which is what Escorts, especially Tac/Escort, is all about.

I also recommend swapping out the Neutronium Alloy for a Field Generator Mk XI (+35% shield capacity).

Also, drop your TT 2 down to a TT1; there's quite literally no appreciable difference and the shield distribution rate is the same.
Ok, thank you. I will try that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
08-05-2011, 02:40 AM
Okay I went back into the Defiant-R and here's my build:

Target shield subsystem I, CRF I and II, APO III
Tact Team I, APB I, HY III
Tact Team I
EPS I and II
PH I, HE II

Regenerative Shield Array Mk XI capacity 5200 with 201 regeneration rate every 6 seconds
+20% phaser resistance damage

Fore Weapons

2 phaser DHC's, Phaser DBB, and one Quantum torpedo launcher

Aft Weapons

3 Phaser Turrets

Engineering Consoles

Neutronium Hull +18
Shield Emitter +13

Tactical Consoles

4 Phaser Relays

All Mk XI weapons with accuracy +10% except for the Quantum.

So I tried this build out in pvp and other tac's are tearing through my shields in less than a volley still. There are still a few that I cannot get through their shields. These Indivduals somehow maintain their shields at nearly 100% as their teammates tear through my shields and there's always 2 or 3 like that where I cannot take down their shields. It's like they travel in packs. I am able to take down other ships but not these "kill you in less than 3 seconds" tactical destroyers.I am unable to duplicate what others are doing to me or defend myself againast them. Then I tried 4 phaser DHC's with very little effect. I then tried 2 DHC's and 2 DC's with same results....poor. I have a friend who has nearly the same setup but is using Tetryon weapons and he does no better than me. After months of trying to figure this thing out ...I can't. I give up. I'm tired of buying weapons batteries because they nerfed the red matter. Tired of getting pwned on a daily basis. Something changed I don't know what it is but something changed. Last call - Any ideas or suggestions?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
08-05-2011, 03:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 777Sandman View Post
Okay I went back into the Defiant-R and here's my build:

Target shield subsystem I, CRF I and II, APO III
Tact Team I, APB I, HY III
Tact Team I
EPS I and II
PH I, HE II

Regenerative Shield Array Mk XI capacity 5200 with 201 regeneration rate every 6 seconds
+20% phaser resistance damage

Fore Weapons

2 phaser DHC's, Phaser DBB, and one Quantum torpedo launcher

Aft Weapons

3 Phaser Turrets

Engineering Consoles

Neutronium Hull +18
Shield Emitter +13

Tactical Consoles

4 Phaser Relays

All Mk XI weapons with accuracy +10% except for the Quantum.

So I tried this build out in pvp and other tac's are tearing through my shields in less than a volley still. There are still a few that I cannot get through their shields. These Indivduals somehow maintain their shields at nearly 100% as their teammates tear through my shields and there's always 2 or 3 like that where I cannot take down their shields. It's like they travel in packs. I am able to take down other ships but not these "kill you in less than 3 seconds" tactical destroyers.I am unable to duplicate what others are doing to me or defend myself againast them. Then I tried 4 phaser DHC's with very little effect. I then tried 2 DHC's and 2 DC's with same results....poor. I have a friend who has nearly the same setup but is using Tetryon weapons and he does no better than me. After months of trying to figure this thing out ...I can't. I give up. I'm tired of buying weapons batteries because they nerfed the red matter. Tired of getting pwned on a daily basis. Something changed I don't know what it is but something changed. Last call - Any ideas or suggestions?
There have been some good suggestions in the thread thus far, but I'm going to offer a suggestion that you streamline and simplify... Once you have the hang of a 'simpler' build, you can tweak and alter the build to incorporate some of the more 'interesting' setups.

First, your choice of ship, the Defiant-R, is a superb choice for a Tactical Captain, and one of its most important features is the ability to Cloak. Cloaking gives you the ability to attack at the time and from the direction of your choosing, and you gain a nice damage boost for the first 5 seconds of your attack, after you de-cloak.

With only 2 each of Engineering and Science powers, however, you must pack as much survivability as you can, into a very limited number of powers. The powers that you currently have on your ship are actually one of the most common and effective layouts for Escorts:

Engineering:
  • Emergency Power to Shields 2
  • Emergency Power to Shields 1

Science:
  • Hazard Emitters 2
  • Polarize Hull 1

An alternate loadout on the Science-slot, would be to replace the Polarize Hull with a copy of Tractor Beam (keeping your opponent stuck in your primary firing arc and slowed/stopped, is a surefire way to ensure that you maximize your damage on that target); this is especially useful if you have at least one copy of Attack Pattern Omega, to counter enemy Tractor Beams (instead of needing Polarize Hull to do so).

Your Tactical Powers will depend on your ship's weapon loadout, so let's look at that first. While the 2x DHC's, 1x DBB, and 1x Torpedo are a pretty common (and, in the right hands, quite powerful) loadout, that is not the 'simplest' loadout, instead, I recommend something straightforward like: 3x DHC's and 1x Torpedo, foreward; 3x Turrets, rearward. This gives you excellent sustained firepower (as long as you are on-target) through the DHC's and Turrets, and also gives you a good burst, once the target's shields go down, thanks to the torpedoes.

What weapons to use? Well, if you are simply looking to get the maximum damage on target that you can, Antiproton Weapons (especially the Emblem weapons) are the way to go. However, if you prefer to save some skillpoints (to spend some in ground skills, to have a slightly better-rounded character), using Disruptors or Phasers is just as valid (Phasers, in particular, are quite useful). I strongly recommend getting a set of Very Rare weapons (Mk XI, preferably), as soon as you can, since the launch of S4, the quality/color of your weapons actually increases the base damage of your weapons, thus, if you are looking to maximize your output, the Very Rare weapons become important (15% greater base damage than a Common version of the same Mk).

So, with that loadout, what powers should you run to make it go? Well, there are three approaches to use, one setup will revolve around using Attack Pattern Omega as your Commander-level power (you will use this setup, or the hybrid setup, if you choose to have your Tractor Beam equipped), and works well for a high-damage alpha strike, then leaves the option to hang around after Tactical Initiative expires; the second uses Cannon: Rapid Fire 3 as your Commander-level power, and focuses on absolutely dealing the maximum possible amount of damage, and sustaining it, even without Tactical Initiative running; the last setup uses a hybrid between these setups, and is best employed for a single, overwhelming strike, then withdrawing until Tactical Initiative cools down.

First, the APO3 and Tractor Beam setup:

Commander:
  • Attack Pattern Omega 3
  • Torpedo: High Yield 3
  • Cannon: Rapid Fire 1
  • Tactical Team 1

Lt. Commander:
  • Cannon: Rapid Fire 2
  • Attack Pattern Beta/Delta 1 (Your choice, both are good)
  • Tactical Team 1

Ensign:
  • Torpedo: High Yield 1

With this setup, the use of Tactical Initiative allows you to run your higher-level damage powers (THY3, CRF2, and APO3) more often, for up to a full minute, during your alpha-strike from Cloak. It maintains a good level of damage, after TI wears off, as long as it can be supplemented by your Tactical Captain skills.

Second, the CRF3, high-damage output build:

Commander:
  • Cannon: Rapid Fire 3
  • Torpedo: High Yield 3
  • Attack Pattern Beta 1
  • Tactical Team 1

Lt. Commander:
  • Cannon: Rapid Fire 2
  • Attack Pattern Beta/Delta 1
  • Tactical Team 1

Ensign:
  • Torpedo: High Yield 1

This layout, like the one above, wants to use its high-level powers (CRF3, THY3, APB1) cycling with themselves, while TI is active, but can sustain a huge amount of damage, even once TI expires. 2 copies of APB1 will allow you to keep 100% up-time on it, but APD does give your ship a nice resistance boost.

Finally, the hybrid layout:

Commander:
  • Cannon: Rapid Fire 3
  • Torpedo: High Yield 3
  • Attack Pattern Beta/Delta 1
  • Tactical Team 1

Lt. Commander:
  • Attack Pattern Omega 1
  • Cannon: Rapid Fire 1
  • Tactical Team 1

Ensign:
  • Torpedo: High Yield 1

This build gives you a lot of flexibility, allowing the use of a Tractor Beam (since you have an APO to break enemy Tractor Beams), but having the high-damage powers (CRF3, THY3, APB/D1) that can be cycled while TI is active; then can hang around, continuing to deal good damage, after TI expires.

On all of the builds, Tactical Initiative, in combination with your ability to Cloak and determine the scene of the engagement, give you maximum damage output for up to 4 'power-cycles' (about 60 seconds worth of combat). After TI expires, you can either stay in combat to continue pounding away (safer if you have a reliable team, and some incoming heals), or withdraw to re-Cloak and repeat your alpha strikes.

One other concern, of paramount importance to all Escorts, is the necessity to cycle your Tactical Teams (and your Distribute Shields power) every, single time that they are available.

Finally, as far as your Consoles and Ship Equipment go:

Find a shield that works for you, and stick with it, Covariant is a great choice, Regenerative can be great, but requires a slightly more 'deft' touch to use effectively. Get the Aegis Engines (possibly even the full Aegis set, if you do not, currently, have the Borg set), as they provide a nice boost to your Captain abilities and any Attack Patterns that your ship runs (if you need an AEGIS set, send me a Mail in-game, and I'll gladly get you set up with one), and run either the AEGIS deflector (if you have it) or a Positron Deflector.

You want the Field Generator Mk XI (+35% Shield Capacity, a must-have on nearly every ship for PvP), and an EPS Flow Regulator (keeps your power-levels high, allows you to recover from Full Impulse faster), for your Engineering Consoles.

For your Science Consoles, you want the Borg Console from the Assimilation mission (replay it, if you do not have the Console already, this is another 'must-have' item for PvP), and a Halon Console.

For your Tactical Consoles, you'll want 4 either Energy-Type Consoles (Phaser Relays or AP Mag Regulators) or you can get by on 4 of the Prefire Chambers (boost Cannons).

Hopefully, this will help point you in the right direction, and, if you have questions, you are welcome to ask them here, or send me a Mail in-game, @BigRedJedi

-Big Red Goomba
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
08-05-2011, 03:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 777Sandman View Post
Okay I went back into the Defiant-R and here's my build:

Target shield subsystem I, CRF I and II, APO III
Tact Team I, APB I, HY III
Tact Team I
EPS I and II
PH I, HE II

Regenerative Shield Array Mk XI capacity 5200 with 201 regeneration rate every 6 seconds
+20% phaser resistance damage

Fore Weapons

2 phaser DHC's, Phaser DBB, and one Quantum torpedo launcher

Aft Weapons

3 Phaser Turrets

Engineering Consoles

Neutronium Hull +18
Shield Emitter +13

Tactical Consoles

4 Phaser Relays

All Mk XI weapons with accuracy +10% except for the Quantum.

So I tried this build out in pvp and other tac's are tearing through my shields in less than a volley still. There are still a few that I cannot get through their shields. These Indivduals somehow maintain their shields at nearly 100% as their teammates tear through my shields and there's always 2 or 3 like that where I cannot take down their shields. It's like they travel in packs. I am able to take down other ships but not these "kill you in less than 3 seconds" tactical destroyers.I am unable to duplicate what others are doing to me or defend myself againast them. Then I tried 4 phaser DHC's with very little effect. I then tried 2 DHC's and 2 DC's with same results....poor. I have a friend who has nearly the same setup but is using Tetryon weapons and he does no better than me. After months of trying to figure this thing out ...I can't. I give up. I'm tired of buying weapons batteries because they nerfed the red matter. Tired of getting pwned on a daily basis. Something changed I don't know what it is but something changed. Last call - Any ideas or suggestions?
The "problem" with these hard to kill groups is not necessarily in their build, but in their experience and their teamwork. It may not be apparent if they receive heal from their team mates, they may not be doing all the work themselves.

I have a question for you, are you watching the buffs your opponents are running before you attack? Chances are they are watching yours, and waiting for the exact moment your buffs go down to attack.
I have faced many escorts that are very hard to kill, but caught at the right time, and they go boom like everyone else. It's all about timing.

On your build above I would personally suggest dropping the DBB and putting in another cannon, switching out your ensign tac skill for HY1. I have always been against running 3 diff weapons. It can be very powerful, but in the long run I feel it gimps me to do so. I would recommend DBB+DHC or Torps+DHC but not all 3.

I would also be inclined to switch HE and PH around. PH gives a much more significant damage resistance than HE. MUCH more. Though personally, I'd want TSS in that LT slot.

Personally I don't care for the hull or shield consoles on my Defiant. I used to try to put defensive stuff on my Defiant but in the end decided to just bite the bullet and build offensively (for a while I was running EPTw instead of EPTs....it's not a good idea in a pug though...). I have an EPS console and a +Weapon power console. I run an EPS because I use BO3 instead of torps.
Yes, she can be rather squishy, but with decent support she is deadly. Anecdotally, got a 42-0 kill ratio in CnH the other night, followed by a 19-0 ratio. When it works, it works.

Regarding survival, I have EPTS and Tac team on pretty much constant rotation. You want to get in to the habit of having defenses running BEFORE you get attacked. If I get jumped I have aux batts and TSS2+HE1 to keep me going past the initial strike. Some things though, are just unsurvivable, and you need to accept that.

The single most important tactic to perfect, is working as a team. Remember that one, and you shouldn't do too badly

Oh also, get Deuterium batts, they freaking rock socks.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:12 AM.