Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
08-05-2011, 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 777Sandman View Post
Okay I went back into the Defiant-R and here's my build:

Target shield subsystem I, CRF I and II, APO III
Tact Team I, APB I, HY III
Tact Team I
EPS I and II
PH I, HE II

Regenerative Shield Array Mk XI capacity 5200 with 201 regeneration rate every 6 seconds
+20% phaser resistance damage

Fore Weapons

2 phaser DHC's, Phaser DBB, and one Quantum torpedo launcher

Aft Weapons

3 Phaser Turrets

Engineering Consoles

Neutronium Hull +18
Shield Emitter +13

Tactical Consoles

4 Phaser Relays

All Mk XI weapons with accuracy +10% except for the Quantum.

So I tried this build out in pvp and other tac's are tearing through my shields in less than a volley still. There are still a few that I cannot get through their shields. These Indivduals somehow maintain their shields at nearly 100% as their teammates tear through my shields and there's always 2 or 3 like that where I cannot take down their shields. It's like they travel in packs. I am able to take down other ships but not these "kill you in less than 3 seconds" tactical destroyers.I am unable to duplicate what others are doing to me or defend myself againast them. Then I tried 4 phaser DHC's with very little effect. I then tried 2 DHC's and 2 DC's with same results....poor. I have a friend who has nearly the same setup but is using Tetryon weapons and he does no better than me. After months of trying to figure this thing out ...I can't. I give up. I'm tired of buying weapons batteries because they nerfed the red matter. Tired of getting pwned on a daily basis. Something changed I don't know what it is but something changed. Last call - Any ideas or suggestions?
Ok, you are getting there, but I agree with the last posts. Simplify. Get rid of your DBB and switch to a DCH.

Get an EPS flow regulator. That way in case you are in a fight and need to get out, you can hit full power to shields or engines, and that power will transfer quickly. As for the other one, I am still deciding on whether to go with a Nutronium Alloy, or +35 to shields. You should get better shields. Even the Aegis shields would be better then those. You might want to try full Borg set, with the aegis shields. Also, something that I have found. DHC are much better for an alpha strike, but DC are better in a prolonged fight. It just depends on our play style. I would still stick with HE 2, and PH 1. Since HE is your only hull heal, it is best to have it in the higher slot, plus, it does give you a hull resistance. Not a big one, but enough to make a difference.

Also, since quantums do make big difference, make sure you skill in them, and put one +26 to quantums.

If you have done it right, one quantum should put out around 629 DPS. If you hit THY 3, that will send 4 of those at someone, and I guarantee you that that will hurt anyone that those come into contact with.

If you have done everything right right before you decloak on someone, just one DHC should put out 2,200 DPS. If not, you haven't done something right. That is what I do, I get behind someone, hit all my abilities, I have 3 DHCs that put out about 2,200 DPS a piece. Those take out the shields, then THY 3, four torpedoes that put out 629 a piece to take out the hull. (Plus all the kinetic damage they do) Once that happens, people die quickly
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
08-05-2011, 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 777Sandman View Post
...I have a friend who has nearly the same setup but is using...
Just a quick note...

You are starting with an advantage actually. Start flying with your friend. Cover each other, team up on targets. Learn to throw each other HE once in awhile (I assume he is also in a Defiant)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
08-05-2011, 09:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artificialx
The "problem" with these hard to kill groups is not necessarily in their build, but in their experience and their teamwork. It may not be apparent if they receive heal from their team mates, they may not be doing all the work themselves.

I have a question for you, are you watching the buffs your opponents are running before you attack? Chances are they are watching yours, and waiting for the exact moment your buffs go down to attack.
I have faced many escorts that are very hard to kill, but caught at the right time, and they go boom like everyone else. It's all about timing.

On your build above I would personally suggest dropping the DBB and putting in another cannon, switching out your ensign tac skill for HY1. I have always been against running 3 diff weapons. It can be very powerful, but in the long run I feel it gimps me to do so. I would recommend DBB+DHC or Torps+DHC but not all 3.

I would also be inclined to switch HE and PH around. PH gives a much more significant damage resistance than HE. MUCH more. Though personally, I'd want TSS in that LT slot.

Personally I don't care for the hull or shield consoles on my Defiant. I used to try to put defensive stuff on my Defiant but in the end decided to just bite the bullet and build offensively (for a while I was running EPTw instead of EPTs....it's not a good idea in a pug though...). I have an EPS console and a +Weapon power console. I run an EPS because I use BO3 instead of torps.
Yes, she can be rather squishy, but with decent support she is deadly. Anecdotally, got a 42-0 kill ratio in CnH the other night, followed by a 19-0 ratio. When it works, it works.

Regarding survival, I have EPTS and Tac team on pretty much constant rotation. You want to get in to the habit of having defenses running BEFORE you get attacked. If I get jumped I have aux batts and TSS2+HE1 to keep me going past the initial strike. Some things though, are just unsurvivable, and you need to accept that.

The single most important tactic to perfect, is working as a team. Remember that one, and you shouldn't do too badly

Oh also, get Deuterium batts, they freaking rock socks.
I agree with you, its all about timing.

Ive been fighting a friend of mine (escort vs science) and my dmg was way lower (Didnt have chance to actually go good dmg).

Still the outcome was 2-0 for me, simply because I exactly timed the abiliities at the right time. (Also anticipating his most dangerous ability; Subnuke)

Normally I would deal massive dmg, but if its not possible (Constantly targeted engines and crap like that) (and didnt had any Engine batteries at the moment) I had to wait until he was on his weakest point ^^


I actually run three weapontypes often, 1 DBB, 2DHC, and a Trico. (3 turrets aft). Reason for this, i dont need to use HY, and i can easily go back to a fully energy build without screwing around with my Bridge officers. So is not always a bad thing having 3 weapontypes ^^
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
08-05-2011, 10:42 PM
Have you tried 100/25/50/25 in your power set up? Evasion in space is linked to speed. Get that engine power up, see what happens. Also, use eng consoles that buff weaponry on an escort. Your goal is to nuke them, before they nuke you. Not outlast them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
08-06-2011, 11:56 AM
I like to thank everyone in the sto community who has given me their time, ideas and suggestions. This is my first MMO and I have been playing since launch so it was obvious I had a lot to learn. I have no other MMO games to compare with so all I can say is that I think Cryptic has done a wonderful job but I what amazes me the most is the people of the sto community. For the most part all conduct themselves in a mature adult fashion and are very helpful including a small percentage that are out of school...lol. Again thank you for everyones advice, ideas, and suggestions.

Okay this is my latest build so far.

TT I, CRF I, HY III, APO III
TT I, APD I, CRF II
HY I
EPtS I, EPtS II
TSS I, HE II

Fore Weapons
3 phaser DHC’s and a Quantum torpedo
Aft Weapons
2 Phaser BA and phaser turret
*All weapons are Mk XI very rare with 10% accuracy

Engineering
Neutronium Alloy hull and +35% Shield generators
Science
Astrometeric Imaging Scanner and Borg universal module
Tactical
3 Phaser Relays Mk XI very rare and 1 Quantum torpedo +26 console

I took this build out for a test drive last night on CnH and it was wonderful. I actually survived long enough to take out another Defiant class ship before dying from his teammates. Even my fleet ally was impressed at the progress that I had made with the build. PVP is fun again.
After completeing the daily PvP I now understand the timing aspect of the tactical ship attack. something Iam not used to but will practice on.
Someone mentioned about working as a team. Unfortunately I am used to that. I say Unfortnately because I always end up as the bait. Now I am a surprising bait...lol.
That power level setting that Cavilier210 was talking about makes me nervous though. I have a Eng and Sci toons that the shield is a critical component of my defense system. Don't get me wrong I will try it but...*shudders*...it makes me nervous.

A note to HamRadio: Please try to join the fleet in game play. Solo is nice but the fellowship is better with others.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
08-07-2011, 04:02 PM
I don't get it!!!!! I was in a daily pvp match when I came across another tactical ship that has really good shields. I mean the kind where even the team couldn't take it down. This tact ship come up on me with my shields at full strength and takes me out in less then a volley. Is there something I am missing or am I just a noob.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
08-07-2011, 08:47 PM
I'm still trying to figure my configurations and what does what as well.I don't for the life of me understand why people reccomend using hazard emitters?Is there some kind of guide out there to understand which does what and effect what?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
08-08-2011, 09:27 AM
@777

Ok, so firstly, you aren't supposed to be the bait. That is what tanks are for, to take the initial barrage. You want to be engaging after the battle has kicked off. Something you always want to consider, although it is often only really practical in Arena. If you only see 4 opponents, in a 5v5 assume the other is cloaked. Wait for him.
You can kind of implement it in CnH, but only in smaller matches, by looking at what points are being capped, or keeping an eye on damage scores so you can see who is currently engaged in battle. Once you notice a serious threat in the form of another escort, if you don't know where they are, use the scoreboard to see if they are engaged or not. If not, be on alert.

Regarding the base power settings, those are the ones I use too. I have extra power from various skills, so I actually run 125/58/68/52. Bear in mind also I am running 2x EPTS to raise my shield power to 90 and 82 for v II and I. 125/90/68/52 no longer sounds as bad eh? Remember they are just you base settings, and you should be working to increase them somehow, and there are several ways.

Yes it seems a bit scary, but consider it this way, speed= defence. Defence directly affects the likelihood of weapons fire even hitting you in the first place, let alone doing damage. My defence rating at that speed is 80%. Which I believe is the cap. In principle that means, I believe, I apologise if I am mistaken, that against a ship with no accuracy bonuses, 8-10 of his shots are going to miss me. If 8/10 of your shots are missing, it really doesn't matter what you are packing. HOWEVER, most people will have some form of accuracy bonus, so your relative defence will be lower, but as long as you keep moving at max speed, you will always be a somewhat slippery fish. Remember though, max speed, if you slow down, your defence tanks, and at a standstill it is -15% (yes, minus!)
Consider it like this, cruisers can hull/shield tank, science can shield tank, escorts can defence tank.

Re #26

I'm afraid we cannot comment without being there. There are so, so many ways to die. If I may make a suggestion, try to find a way to record your matches (I use FRAPS). You can then share videos with us, and we can have a much better idea of what hit you, and explain why you popped. Also, it lets you look back on your mistakes in detail, and learn from them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
08-08-2011, 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shank-El
I'm still trying to figure my configurations and what does what as well.I don't for the life of me understand why people reccomend using hazard emitters?Is there some kind of guide out there to understand which does what and effect what?
HE provides a nice HoT (heal over time) and a decent damage resist.

If I pop an Aux batt, my HE1 provides 14,284 hull heal over 15s (so ~950 hull healed per sec). It also provides
+28 resistance to all damage. This gives me 27.5% all damage resistance, which translates in to you losing an effective 27.5% of you damage dealt. Those two things together, make it a very good power to have. Not many others provide both a heal and a resist, and resists, are essential.

Aside from those main benefits, it also clears:
Plasma fires
Warp plasma
Hargh'Pengh radiation
Aceton field

At least 3 of which are very commonly encountered.

Am I missing anything? I think that's it. Provided you use it with an Aux batt, it is a great skill. It is practically a must have on a science vessel. You just have to use it pro-actively rather than re-actively.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
08-08-2011, 09:54 AM
Great idea about the FRAPS. I have it to but haven't used it in a long time. I am not accustom to the play style of a tact ship so obviously its something I have to keep practicing on. Thanks for your advice Artificialx.
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