Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Weapon line up
08-07-2011, 11:11 AM
I dont want to come off as a whinner, but guys this is ridiculous. How many ship pilot around in PvP using phasers? Allot. Which begs the question...... why? Then ask yourself, which weapon is least used, and why? I suggest the Devs crunch numbers/stats of PvPs. To include player accounts and toons. Now I assumed the when this game was designed with weapon load outs i.e cannons, torps, mines and beams to be placed on a ship. Yet the game's weapon load-outs have been Bast$$$edized. To the point of phasers with turret boats, phaser cannons and turrets. In no way am I blamming the Devs they couldn't of forseen this comming. It's disappointing to work up a toon to VA, build your ship's platform using Torps, cannons, mines and beams onto it. I like Plasma weapons and I build a toon using that along with photons torps. Example, Two Dual Heavy Cannons, Photon Torp and one Dual Beam array in the front. The Rear has one mine (plasma), one plasma torp and one single beam array. Yes I placed points in the above mention wpns. So match me up against a phaser cannon/turret build. Just not going to come close.

I believe, the Devs could move tier 3 phasers to tier 5 and move polarons to tier 3. Why not?

Weapon-load outs.

Additonally, weapon load-outs (max) be implemented bellow

Escorts/Cruisers/Science
Front Weapons
(2) Cannon Max
(2) Dual Beams
(2) Single Beams
(2) Torpedoes
(0) Turrets

Rear Weapons

Escorts*/Cruisers/Science
(2) Single Beams
(2) Torpedoes
(1) Mines
(2) Turrets
* Note Escort only receive on turret max.

You ever noticed the default weapon load-out on the ship your received after being promoted? Basically like that.

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
08-07-2011, 11:32 AM
Ever watch any Trek at all?

Phasers are the standard weapons and thats what they'll stay. A lot of folks use phasers not just because of the skill points, but because they are Trek standard. If weapons were up to me, there wouldn't be all different types of alien ones mounted, there might be different phaser types, and perhaps the ability to jury rig one or two alien weapons through crafting or some other method.

Factions would stay primarily armed in the tech they were known for but there would still be levels of expertise or some such thing. the whole train in different energy types that do the same base damage was a flawed system from the start.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
08-07-2011, 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestrel_Falcon View Post
I dont want to come off as a whinner, but guys this is ridiculous. How many ship pilot around in PvP using phasers? Allot. Which begs the question...... why? Then ask yourself, which weapon is least used, and why? I suggest the Devs crunch numbers/stats of PvPs. To include player accounts and toons. Now I assumed the when this game was designed with weapon load outs i.e cannons, torps, mines and beams to be placed on a ship. Yet the game's weapon load-outs have been Bast$$$edized. To the point of phasers with turret boats, phaser cannons and turrets. In no way am I blamming the Devs they couldn't of forseen this comming. It's disappointing to work up a toon to VA, build your ship's platform using Torps, cannons, mines and beams onto it. I like Plasma weapons and I build a toon using that along with photons torps. Example, Two Dual Heavy Cannons, Photon Torp and one Dual Beam array in the front. The Rear has one mine (plasma), one plasma torp and one single beam array. Yes I placed points in the above mention wpns. So match me up against a phaser cannon/turret build. Just not going to come close.

I believe, the Devs could move tier 3 phasers to tier 5 and move polarons to tier 3. Why not?

Weapon-load outs.

Additonally, weapon load-outs (max) be implemented bellow

Escorts/Cruisers/Science
Front Weapons
(2) Cannon Max
(2) Dual Beams
(2) Single Beams
(2) Torpedoes
(0) Turrets

Rear Weapons

Escorts*/Cruisers/Science
(2) Single Beams
(2) Torpedoes
(1) Mines
(2) Turrets
* Note Escort only receive on turret max.

You ever noticed the default weapon load-out on the ship your received after being promoted? Basically like that.

..Just no.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
08-07-2011, 08:02 PM
Phasers are cheap and their proc is a bit high, I just can't tell if it's because of weird mechanics or the high prevalence of Phase's being used. The other energy types need some work, and there are quite a few good suggestions floating around the forums, but simply trading Phasers with a higher tier is a weak solution. Honestly, all energy types should be clumped in the same tier, then maybe they could put the torpedo skills in the next to balance out the points a bit.

Your max load out suggestion is awful though. I mean really, really bad. If they did anything like that it would be a huge mistake.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
08-08-2011, 12:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHale View Post
Phasers are cheap and their proc is a bit high, I just can't tell if it's because of weird mechanics or the high prevalence of Phase's being used. The other energy types need some work, and there are quite a few good suggestions floating around the forums, but simply trading Phasers with a higher tier is a weak solution. Honestly, all energy types should be clumped in the same tier, then maybe they could put the torpedo skills in the next to balance out the points a bit.

Your max load out suggestion is awful though. I mean really, really bad. If they did anything like that it would be a huge mistake.
I agree. Energy weapon types(Phasers, Disruptors, Polarons, etc) should all be in the same tier. Weapon form (Beam array, Beam Banks, Turrets, Cannons) should be a new set of skill points, likely in the higher tier than energy type.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
08-08-2011, 04:37 AM
So many threads now go on about the points diff between,say Phaser and Polaron.

But there are sci builds out there that use Polaron cannons, tykens rift 3 and numerous other power drains. They also run with trico torps but only loose them at point blank range. See ? Instant shutdown and a solid chance of a one shot kill. Polaron helps you do it.


Expnsive, but if you are building for damage then expensive weapons can be just the thing to go for.


Enough pvp tac players take AP's so the cost is not an issue when searching for excellence. Perhaps it is phaser and disruptor builds that are more of an issue as they save points for a wider spread of skills and passives later. Less focus. Thats the last thing tac needs, for sure.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7 Weapon load-outs
08-10-2011, 09:36 AM
You mentioned the use of cannons (polarons) My science officer uses the intrepid class or Nebula. I dont see how that would benefit me using polarons.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
08-10-2011, 09:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestrel_Falcon View Post
You mentioned the use of cannons (polarons) My science officer uses the intrepid class or Nebula. I dont see how that would benefit me using polarons.
They could have been speaking in general, or of course, polaron turrets are effected by the cannon skills.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9 Imo
08-10-2011, 09:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestrel_Falcon View Post
I dont want to come off as a whinner, but guys this is ridiculous. How many ship pilot around in PvP using phasers? Allot. Which begs the question...... why? Then ask yourself, which weapon is least used, and why? I suggest the Devs crunch numbers/stats of PvPs. To include player accounts and toons. Now I assumed the when this game was designed with weapon load outs i.e cannons, torps, mines and beams to be placed on a ship. Yet the game's weapon load-outs have been Bast$$$edized. To the point of phasers with turret boats, phaser cannons and turrets. In no way am I blamming the Devs they couldn't of forseen this comming. It's disappointing to work up a toon to VA, build your ship's platform using Torps, cannons, mines and beams onto it. I like Plasma weapons and I build a toon using that along with photons torps. Example, Two Dual Heavy Cannons, Photon Torp and one Dual Beam array in the front. The Rear has one mine (plasma), one plasma torp and one single beam array. Yes I placed points in the above mention wpns. So match me up against a phaser cannon/turret build. Just not going to come close.

I believe, the Devs could move tier 3 phasers to tier 5 and move polarons to tier 3. Why not?

Weapon-load outs.

Additonally, weapon load-outs (max) be implemented bellow

Escorts/Cruisers/Science
Front Weapons
(2) Cannon Max
(2) Dual Beams
(2) Single Beams
(2) Torpedoes
(0) Turrets

Rear Weapons

Escorts*/Cruisers/Science
(2) Single Beams
(2) Torpedoes
(1) Mines
(2) Turrets
* Note Escort only receive on turret max.

You ever noticed the default weapon load-out on the ship your received after being promoted? Basically like that.

More the merrier! Makes stacking resistances so easy
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
08-10-2011, 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestrel_Falcon View Post
I dont want to come off as a whinner, but guys this is ridiculous. How many ship pilot around in PvP using phasers? Allot. Which begs the question...... why? Then ask yourself, which weapon is least used, and why? I suggest the Devs crunch numbers/stats of PvPs. To include player accounts and toons. Now I assumed the when this game was designed with weapon load outs i.e cannons, torps, mines and beams to be placed on a ship. Yet the game's weapon load-outs have been Bast$$$edized. To the point of phasers with turret boats, phaser cannons and turrets. In no way am I blamming the Devs they couldn't of forseen this comming. It's disappointing to work up a toon to VA, build your ship's platform using Torps, cannons, mines and beams onto it. I like Plasma weapons and I build a toon using that along with photons torps. Example, Two Dual Heavy Cannons, Photon Torp and one Dual Beam array in the front. The Rear has one mine (plasma), one plasma torp and one single beam array. Yes I placed points in the above mention wpns. So match me up against a phaser cannon/turret build. Just not going to come close.

I believe, the Devs could move tier 3 phasers to tier 5 and move polarons to tier 3. Why not?

Weapon-load outs.

Additonally, weapon load-outs (max) be implemented bellow

Escorts/Cruisers/Science
Front Weapons
(2) Cannon Max
(2) Dual Beams
(2) Single Beams
(2) Torpedoes
(0) Turrets

Rear Weapons

Escorts*/Cruisers/Science
(2) Single Beams
(2) Torpedoes
(1) Mines
(2) Turrets
* Note Escort only receive on turret max.

You ever noticed the default weapon load-out on the ship your received after being promoted? Basically like that.

... The fact that you want to mix Beams, Cannons (Turrets are Cannons in case you do not know that), Mines, and Torps suggests a monumental lack of understand of how the skill tree and console slots work to me.

The reason people stick to a combo of just one type of energy weapon (Cannon/Beam) and one type of projectile (Torps/Mines) is that to get the maximum yield out of any given weapon system requires you spend skill points in that type. This is complicated further by needing to spend points in the specific type of Energy (Phaser/Disruptor/Plasma etc...) and Projectile (Plasma, Photon, Quantum etc...). Now with Phasers & Disruptors being the cheapest to work to full and having useful Procs they are a natural choice and quite good for a build. Photons and Quantums are also cheap and very effective and thus are a natural choice.

You also only have so many tactical console slots to buff with and you are already going to have to split these between Energy and Projectile. Having to further split them between Beam, Cannon, Mine, and Torp makes their overall buff pathetic compared to what you could have achieved.

All that said: Breaking up the skill trees into ground and space would help this situation a fair bit but honestly I do not fully understand why damage type skills NEED to be spread all over. To be very honest Plasma sucks right now. It is useless because its damage is negligible and can be gotten rid off easily. Tetryon is decent but once you hit Hull it is useless and Phaser Procing Shields or Disruptor Breech is superior. Polaron can be very nasty combined with Sci abilities (which is why I want to use them on my Sci boat) so maybe they are deserving of higher points. Antiproton is decent but honestly I have never noticed that it is strong enough to justify its placement. Its extra crit damage is ok but Disruptor Breech ends up netting you more DPS in the end.

For Torps and Mines besides the basic ones only Chroniton stand out as useful to help slow down the enemy for slower turning ships.

Yes, when you get a ship they come loaded with a mixed bag of equipment but that is so that you have a weapon or two to use regardless of how you have skilled yourself. It is not actually a recommended setup for your ship. After all, if you go by that logic then we should not bother having Devices and Consoles considering they are not included in that starter build and obviously standard Engines, Deflectors, and Shields are best!
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