Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 111
08-13-2011, 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
No One shotting Tacs... no need to run a 5 SNB team
My one-shotting tacs never lost a kill because of SNB. They were however stopped from running away after successful or failed strikes, by SNB.
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# 112
08-13-2011, 05:40 PM
I think subnuc needs to stay as it is aslong as resist stacking stays. But it's an evil circle really.

Tac team is pretty stupid, so lets pretend it doesn't exist for a sec...

But yeah, if resist stacking was nerfed don't you think damage and burst damage would become very powerful? It's still possible for ships to oneshot in the current mechanic.

And the the CD thingy prolly needs to stay as well, otherwise there would be reason to clear it with ST. Less ST = moar heals overall. Only SS would be worth clearing (and maybe some double/triple scans)

Resist to snb after? Maybe, I don't know. In some very heal heavy games the snbs have to come right after one and other for someone to go down. I dunno.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 113
08-13-2011, 06:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dassem_Ultor
My one-shotting tacs never lost a kill because of SNB. They were however stopped from running away after successful or failed strikes, by SNB.
Exactly... a team with a sci will trade kills with the one shot tacs. That seems pretty balanced too me.
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# 114
08-13-2011, 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ppumaht View Post
I think subnuc needs to stay as it is aslong as resist stacking stays. But it's an evil circle really.

Tac team is pretty stupid, so lets pretend it doesn't exist for a sec...

But yeah, if resist stacking was nerfed don't you think damage and burst damage would become very powerful? It's still possible for ships to oneshot in the current mechanic.

And the the CD thingy prolly needs to stay as well, otherwise there would be reason to clear it with ST. Less ST = moar heals overall. Only SS would be worth clearing (and maybe some double/triple scans)

Resist to snb after? Maybe, I don't know. In some very heal heavy games the snbs have to come right after one and other for someone to go down. I dunno.
Tac stacking also needs to suffer diminishing returns. Same as shield resists.
The formulas that exist for both are not aggressive enough.
A fully buffed shield is Star Power Mode... an unbuffed shield is paper.
A Fully buffed attack is insta gib mode... an unbuffed attack is like throwing captain kirk style paper mache boulders.

They both have to have there stacking looked at.... and perhaps in the process have the base increased slightly. Buffs should help but not Double or triple anything. IMO anyway
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 115
08-13-2011, 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
I see where you going... its just more band aid though.

Instead of adding more mini SNBs... they should just fix the real problem.
No Zombie Cruisers... no need to run a 5 SNB team
No One shotting Tacs... no need to run a 5 SNB team
No Super Shield Sci Ships... no need to run a 5 SNB team

I guess we agree on the problem, not the solution. I do hope Cryptic never just band aids it some more... but I'm sure that's exactly what will happen. lol
I do not totally agree with you there. A well buffed cruiser with distributing shields will die in 5% of all situations from the best of alpha strikes. EPTS3 + TT1 is about enough to absorb most of the dmg. So something is not right here. Sure, we can agree that we see alot of oneshotting escorts big *** cruisers. Safe to say they are ones not well pre-buffed and have no resistance at all. And you see this alot with PuG's in Arena or C&H

If a Tact cannot stack his abilities, he is useless. Thats why it is called a 'tactical'. You dont want to rotate all of the relative weak and nerfed tactical abilities, you want to time all your buffs at the right time and stack them. Thats called tactics.

I think some of the game aspects should not be allowed stacking, but seriously, call me a bad escort but I can tell you that a good buffed ship (and you should always be buffed imo, rotate EPTS etc) cannot be shot down with 1 shot, at least VERY difficult. (More luck then wisdom)

What you are proposing will have the greatest effect on the tactical profession, a relatively weak profession imo. Lets face it, 1v1 escort vs cruiser or science, its 10 times as hard for an escort. so they are already out of whack. One can say unbalanced, I say unbalanced, others say its Canon (aka Escorts cannot 1v1 cruisers/science and win), and other people deny this fact because they get one-shotted. (Aka. Escorts are the OP class of space STO)

Buffstacking your own abilities is something different then buff stacking on a team member with 3 Extends, 2 TSS's, 2x HE's. etcetera. See the difference here? THAT should be somewhat limited. Let a ship take care of his own abilities somewhat more. If he doesnt have them, too bad. People choose to put other stuff on their ship, Tractor beams, Scramble crap, and what not. And yes remove or adjust (diminish effects) the insane teammate buffstacking, but leave everyones individual stacking alone.

You would totally destroy what a tactical stands for.
Leave individual buff stacking alone. I think the abilities like Extend Shields etcetera should get an overhaul, etcetera.
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Posts: 120
# 116
08-13-2011, 10:16 PM
Would disagree with that... insane tactical buff stacking is why Cryptic kept buffing resists and heals in the first place.

Honestly with Tac team and some of the other sillyness going on... I can almost always ignore people till there buffs drop... then ya pretty much one shot them. (more like 8 shot them with all the buttons that get pushed lol)

The issue is un buffed Tacticals blow... and nothing lives if they don't have shield resists up.

Defense buffs are too good
Tactical buffs are too good

If you are going to reduce shield resist (which should happen)
Then you have to reduce tactical buffs... sorry its crazy tac buffing that brought about the crazy shield stacking.

I stand by my opinon on it... stacking of all kinds needs a massive bump in diminishing return formulas.
No Tacticals should not be able to do 400% dmg... yes it is still very easy to one shot people... I do it all the time. The key is not blowing the wad on a buffed target of course.
No Engi / Sci should not be able to fly around with almost perfect shields for 75% of a fight either.

It all stacks much too well.

If it honestly took ALL of a sci / engis buffs to have perfect shields for 15 seconds every 1:30 or so... really you would not need to have the tac buffs stack so perfectly.
Trust me I play tac more then anything else, I don't want my tac to suck. Really though there is no way to fix shields with out reducing tactical dmg. It can't be a one then the other fix... they both need a correction at the same time. Really the whole thing needs an overhaul... not many of us myself included are likely going to be around if Cryptic ever gets around too it anyway.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 117
08-14-2011, 09:24 PM
Based on multiple posts above, Subnuc doesn't need any nerf while buff stacking remains unlimited. As a result, all classes should have access to some kind of buff removal mechanic -- an ability this pivotal should not be monopolized by any one profession. In case some of you missed my earlier posts, I had proposed that the Tactical captain's FoMM be modified to remove buffs when the target receives a critical hit from the FoMM-caster. The Engineer rotate shield frequency could be modified to reflect or transfer debuffs to another random target nearby.

Also, there's no reason why both buff-stacking-diminishing-returns AND buff-removal by other non-sci captains can't be implemented. I think both solutions will go a long way towards correcting this game's many pvp issues, including class balance and buff-manipulation.
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# 118
08-14-2011, 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shar487
Based on multiple posts above, Subnuc doesn't need any nerf while buff stacking remains unlimited. As a result, all classes should have access to some kind of buff removal mechanic -- an ability this pivotal should not be monopolized by any one profession. In case some of you missed my earlier posts, I had proposed that the Tactical captain's FoMM be modified to remove buffs when the target receives a critical hit from the FoMM-caster. The Engineer rotate shield frequency could be modified to reflect or transfer debuffs to another random target nearby.

Also, there's no reason why both buff-stacking-diminishing-returns AND buff-removal by other non-sci captains can't be implemented. I think both solutions will go a long way towards correcting this game's many pvp issues, including class balance and buff-manipulation.
OK and sub nuke should also then increase crit rate by say 25% of what Attack Pattern Alpha does... as well as have 25% of the shield resist that Rotate Shields gives. I mean why would that not be a good idea?

Sub Nuke is a sci captain skill if you don't like it roll a sci... or team with some.

One class doesn't get everything its the way it is. Sci captains have no direct dmg skills... they have one Massive debuff and a buff remover.

Tacs and Engis both have direct dmg skills... Alpha and GDF for the Tac.. and Nadion and EPS for the Engi. There is a trade for having sub nuke.

Its not a good idea to further muddle the class distinctions... Cryptics first mistake was just not making STO a MMO and define the classes. Its tried and true and works... every MMO that has tried to muddle things up too much mostly fail.

The only time SUB nuke is really over powered is when more then one is in the field.... add an immunity and its fixed.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 119
08-14-2011, 10:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
OK and sub nuke should also then increase crit rate by say 25% of what Attack Pattern Alpha does... as well as have 25% of the shield resist that Rotate Shields gives. I mean why would that not be a good idea?

Sub Nuke is a sci captain skill if you don't like it roll a sci... or team with some.

One class doesn't get everything its the way it is. Sci captains have no direct dmg skills... they have one Massive debuff and a buff remover.

Tacs and Engis both have direct dmg skills... Alpha and GDF for the Tac.. and Nadion and EPS for the Engi. There is a trade for having sub nuke.

Its not a good idea to further muddle the class distinctions... Cryptics first mistake was just not making STO a MMO and define the classes. Its tried and true and works... every MMO that has tried to muddle things up too much mostly fail.

The only time SUB nuke is really over powered is when more then one is in the field.... add an immunity and its fixed.
I wouldn't consider Photonic Fleet and Sensor Scan trivial when total damage output is concerned.

Besides, I'm not asking for everyone to have a SubNuc... after all, SNB still strips out all target buffs with 1 button press and is currently indefensible. The skill buff removal modifications I'm asking for in other captain-only skills require critical hits for FoMM buff removal, and Rotate Shield Frequency debuff redirection requires a debuff to be cast by someone else on the engineer ship, making it completely defensive.

We both agree that something has to be done about the crazy buff stacking zombie cruisers, 1-shot tacs, and other stacked buff builds generate. Currently the only class that can do anything about the above is the Sci-Captain. I'm just asking Cryptic to give other classes access the buff-removal mechanic in some other form so that buff stacks stop becoming big issues. Otherwise, everyone will always need Sci's the break the stacked mess, and this clearly elevates the Sci-Captain above all others in PVP.

Ultimately the Sci-Captain still holds the Ace for buff-removal with SNB. I'm just asking that other captains get dealt some weaker buff-removal cards. But at the moment, Sci's hold the entire deck. APA, GDF, EPS, and even Nadion all disappear with 1 SNB. EDIT: If SNB did not affect other captain-only abilities, then I would agree with you that it is balanced when compared to other captain-only skills. However, it trumps them all since it can remove every single captain-only buff.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 120
08-15-2011, 01:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shar487
1-shot tacs
1-shot tacs are a myth created by players that have no idea how the countless ways to stay alive work!

I know, cause I've specialized in 1-shotting, and half the players in PvP can't be one-shotted! Because they know, and use, the right tricks to stay alive! Those who can be one shotted will never be saved by SNB, unless the escort pilot is real silly and decloaks right in front of a sci. :p
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