Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
08-08-2011, 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
You know, this is pretty much what happens right now when I fly a "tanky" ship. Simply because the power I hold in reserve are not on cooldown anyway.

It might work better if SNB came with a 5 second stun-like effect instead. Then Everyone would have the same problem with it, no matter how many reserves you have.
When it's used prematurely, it isn't very effective. It is really best saved for their oh crap moments. Then, you can get lucky enough to catch them on cycle or gcd. If we remove the secondary effect however, they can re-tank much quicker, which I can only see as a bad thing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
08-08-2011, 01:32 PM
subnoob is for people that need to l2p. it was better pre 2.0 before interupt was added. the biggest problem isnt defending or playing against it. its playing with noobs that cant burst, cant hit n run, and use snb as a crutch for every attack pass. snb>spacebar isnt the only recipe for victory. especially humorous is watching a fed endure a subnuke, two, or even multiple and still not go down. no follow up.

u pack 5 sci with snb and ill bring apa gdf and some ctrd trics and never get within your fore 90. science is for noobs. every lamer skill in this game is a sci skill, period. nothing is more op when it comes to cap abilities. each one dwarfs the other class skills. snb s just one of four. sci fleet, scan, and even p fleet are all op imho.

but il. still pwn you
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
08-08-2011, 01:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Covenanter
Alpha Strike that's the problem, kills more people than anything else

You don't even need to sub nuke some one, Alpha Strike and some tac spams, Cannons or even some beams or turrets or and these things take down SHIELDS ! and HULL !
Alphas are only a concern for those who are not paying attention. If you run EPtoS, even if you don't know if any enemy is around, it will take the edge off the alpha. So will running the AEGIS gear, and keeping your speed high.

I usually run a high spike Raptor, and the first minutes of every match is always spent tapping the different enemies, to see who don't respond properly. When I find someone that don't, he will be my primary target for the rest of the match, and I will only tap other players while he's respawning. In every PUG team there is usually at least two players that pop prematurely. If you're one of them, alphas are sure to feel real bad, as you'll be targeted as soon as you're in range...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
08-08-2011, 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmoeJoe
subnoob is for people that need to l2p. it was better pre 2.0 before interupt was added. the biggest problem isnt defending or playing against it. its playing with noobs that cant burst, cant hit n run, and use snb as a crutch for every attack pass. snb>spacebar isnt the only recipe for victory. especially humorous is watching a fed endure a subnuke, two, or even multiple and still not go down. no follow up.

u pack 5 sci with snb and ill bring apa gdf and some ctrd trics and never get within your fore 90. science is for noobs. every lamer skill in this game is a sci skill, period. nothing is more op when it comes to cap abilities. each one dwarfs the other class skills. snb s just one of four. sci fleet, scan, and even p fleet are all op imho.

but il. still pwn you
Hey mini thanks for holding back I really do not know how you really feel.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
08-08-2011, 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmoeJoe
subnoob is for people that need to l2p. it was better pre 2.0 before interupt was added. the biggest problem isnt defending or playing against it. its playing with noobs that cant burst, cant hit n run, and use snb as a crutch for every attack pass. snb>spacebar isnt the only recipe for victory. especially humorous is watching a fed endure a subnuke, two, or even multiple and still not go down. no follow up.

u pack 5 sci with snb and ill bring apa gdf and some ctrd trics and never get within your fore 90. science is for noobs. every lamer skill in this game is a sci skill, period. nothing is more op when it comes to cap abilities. each one dwarfs the other class skills. snb s just one of four. sci fleet, scan, and even p fleet are all op imho.

but il. still pwn you
really, ... thanks for letting us know
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
08-08-2011, 06:03 PM
No ability on its own is OP. It's the stacking and chaining said abilities that can be a bit of a concern.

If you're facing a predominantly Science PvP group, they will decimate your team with debuffs, stripped buffs, interrupts and disabled systems.

If you happen to be facing an entire team of Raptors-BoPs/Defiants that simultaneously decloak and CRF III on focussed targets, they will destroy you. One ship falls, the rest follow. No amount of healing, resists or shield buffs can absorb that much spike damage.

These are extreme examples but I think point out that Healing/Tanking is only effective and feels OP against more balanced and diverse teams. So when you boil it down, Resists/Healing still falls on the bottom when stacked against other said stacked teams, imo.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
08-08-2011, 07:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomicile
"No ability on its own is OP."
That cant be right, what skill is more OP then the skill that kills all others?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmoeJoe
subnoob is for people that need to l2p. it was better pre 2.0 before interupt was added. the biggest problem isnt defending or playing against it. its playing with noobs that cant burst, cant hit n run, and use snb as a crutch for every attack pass. snb>spacebar isnt the only recipe for victory. especially humorous is watching a fed endure a subnuke, two, or even multiple and still not go down. no follow up.

u pack 5 sci with snb and ill bring apa gdf and some ctrd trics and never get within your fore 90. science is for noobs. every lamer skill in this game is a sci skill, period. nothing is more op when it comes to cap abilities. each one dwarfs the other class skills. snb s just one of four. sci fleet, scan, and even p fleet are all op imho.

but il. still pwn you
Finally someone with some sense :p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tidemand82 View Post
Yes Snb is properly the stronges power in STO. But with healing being about 3 times more powerfull than dps imo, removing or nerfing it will only make healing even more powerfull. Dont think thats the way to go
Thats exactly right. Healing is even more OP. But Subnuc against a weak Tactical Escort, can barely handle it without the help of external healing. When I 1v1 with a science it is in all circumstances REQUIRED to keep my TSS2 avaiable until I get the subnuc. I mean, it dominates that specific game. I wait for the subnuc to come and hope for the best. (Now I can handle this particular situation, but it costs me 100x more effort to solve this issue while the Science vessel really doesnt have to think "oh yeez when is the escort gunna pup hiz uber Attackz patternz alphaz attack" (which would be my 'strongest' captain ability APA against the Science vessel. See what im getting at? ^^ Lets all face it guys, Tacticals in Escort are probably the best victim for SNB's. Good cruiser captains can handle a SNB pretty well if you ask me. (Engineers have extra captain heals and cruiser heals, Science has a ship full of heals) While APA cannot stand against SNB. Tacticals (especially in defiant) doesnt have a single bit of resistance while nuked.

Mesa believe that some people here havent flown TACtical in Defiant long enough to know what I mean. And people actually rage over Subnucs here and there, "Argh I hate being subnuced" but the funny thing is next, they jump onto their science toon and they go use it themselves. Ive been in premades for a long time, and the first thing we get to hear in a premade is "10 seconds before I can subnuke him". Get ur brainz working guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artificialx
Not my impression. Next question?
No. Let them discuss this for a while, I didnt knew this was such a touchy subject :p
I love it ^^

Go on guys, go on.

Besides, I think Ramming speed is also OP, got my highest one yet: 100,000+ :p whoop
errrr Ok lets keep the discussion constructive.

What I really believe, is that Cryptic should have an Objective look at all abilities, especially comparing each and all Captain abilities and REALLY balance them. Seriously normal minded people can do this. What cryptic does now is this: They hear from the community that Subnuc is useless and should be worked on. Next thing cryptic does is make this an uber ability. Without ANY, but if ANY consideration for a balanced game. This went on with all the things in this game, *looks at pengs, FaW, etcetera*

I.e. Put the *'Fleet abilities next to each other and just balance them out like it should. (This goes for ALL abilities) And they should take EVERY aspect in consideration of how or why it could be possibly more OP then another ability. As an example<----- EXAMPLE<<< I dont know the actual numbers.: Science fleet vs Engineer Fleet: 50% Shield resist and the other 50% hull resist. Now lets face it, shields are much stronger then a hull.(And alot more shield heals flying around because hull tanking is just not viable) Would this comparision or balance be right? No. it would not. Does tactical fleet even compete with these? I doubt it. The +30 base dmg increase is almost negliable, comparable to Omega1. (Ofcourse for a longer period of time) but still... the extra bit of accuracy even... I mean i dont see much to no difference when i pop this ability. And dont come with nonsense like if you exactly balance out these abilities nobody would die. Thats pure bullcrap. Abilities are being used tactically (meaning they will be popped at the right time, not just put under your spacebar for that matter). There is enough variation, and which is DPS, Shield, and hull. thats all what counts in a fight. Directly or indirectly. So for all abilities even if they would be properly balanced the game would be so diverse that the endresult could still be 15-0 or 0-15. You name it. When I observe myself and look back in the past on how I was before, I can now tell that at least half of my experience is not based on better weapons or gear, or abilities, its about timing. Your real world timing and response, etcetera. Your experience at maneavring an Escort, because that is not plainly full throtle and steer. Its all the variables combined, powerlevels, throttlespeed, even reversing and stuff. The game is so complex that it would be much more fun while still properly balanced. I cant believe some people do not see this.

Same for holoships. Sure im positive they balanced the firepower of it somewhat, its not powerful, some people dont even feel them shooting at their shields. But do they calculate the reasonably high phaser proc change of these buggy crapfloating objects in space? ofcourse not. These kinds of things im talking about guys. And no im not calling for a nerf here. ^^

Everybody likes to say what they have to say, I might be right, i might not be right. This is how i think about things, and it is solely based on my experience as a space pvper.

Anyways, Im thinking about starting up my first Engineer and take it all the way to Vice Admiral, lets see how I can outtank those pesty Subnukers in the...

Defiant. >:]

^
NERF
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
08-08-2011, 09:37 PM
The problem is that buffs are the only thing keeping ships form instantly exploding when looked at by escorts.
Being able to remove ALL buffs from a target with one click is rather stupid in that environment.

"get the team to rebuff you!"

Too bad that all the important survival buffs are self only, and that you hardly get time to tell your team. let alone have them react when you are shot by some escorts that just tear through your 50k hp in mere seconds.
So yeah. snb is a game breaker simply because its one power that removes ALL buffs one can apply to oneself, it also removes buffs the team applied and oh yeah: it sets everything to huge arse cooldown.

One power that invalidates the whole engineer class.
Good job people. good job.
And lets not even start on scramble sensors.
it would be nice if the ONLY cure power we get would not fire off into fckn nowhere.
Its awful that you have so very much relying on being gifted with precognition and having sci team.
It has been this broken since forever and no one cared and i'm sure no one will care now either.



surefire way to chase away anyone who wants to do some pvp if he notices that his chosen class get completely negated out of existence by one power.


Hey and lets not forget the of just about everyone with psw to break extend shields you have on your allies.
WAY TO GO!
oh and of course the effect gets terminated by snb too! even if you still have it running on your target, no it doesn't get reapplied, its just gone and so is your ally that you wanted to protect.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
08-08-2011, 11:31 PM
Current SNB is a bit much, I'd like it better if it was either:

alternative 1:
- strips all buffs
- prevents new buffs from being applied for 4 seconds

or

alternative 2:
- strips all buffs
- get cooldown reduced to 2/3 of current cd
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
08-08-2011, 11:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by claydermunch View Post
The problem is that buffs are the only thing keeping ships form instantly exploding when looked at by escorts.
But these buffs are than responsible for a fully buffed Escort hardly making a dent in the target's shield. The damage buffs have already run out by the time the enemy cycles his next heal to negate it all.

That's why we need SNB.

SNB is not problematic. The problem is the dependence we have on buffs for damage and on buffs for resistance/heals. If buffs were less relevant, SNB wouldn't be as powerful. Buffs being as strong as they are, SNB is important, because it's the only way to get somethng killed.

SNB is the equalizer.
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