Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
08-09-2011, 03:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo716 View Post
which can be cleared with science team of any level.
Are you purposefully ignoring the comments in this thread?

The 'counter' doesn't restore all the buffs it eliminated. That's the problem. The problem isn't the increased rechargetime, the problem is that it eliminates all active buffs on the target and that effect cannot be countered.


Until this changes, Subnuc will be clearly superior to the other profession's abilities at that tier, since that particular aspect cannot be countered.


But then, why am I even bothering explaining this to you, when you're just going to put your fingers in your ears and go 'na na na na I can't hear you!'?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
08-09-2011, 04:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Covenanter
As Mai Kai says it can be countered by a level 1 sci skill, Sci Team with only a 30 sec !!! cool down, which you or certainly someone in your team should have, if your pugging and you find SNB that much of a problem surely you would carry a copy anyway !
Sci team isn't a counter to SNB's main purpose. Does your handful of buffs come back when you clear snb? . One sci cap power can wipe every one of a Tac's or Eng's cap powers. Anyways it is what it is, but I would advocate for the cooldown timer debuff to be done away with. That it also affects weapon timers is beyond ridiculous IMO.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
08-09-2011, 04:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by claydermunch View Post
"...stuff about how escorts can easily pop cruisers....
A cruiser with even a moderate defence skill can not be popped by a lone escort. Even with SNB.


Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo716 View Post
which can be cleared with science team of any level.
So not a problem for a premade where the escorts KNOW they can rely on heals from other ships, and can allow themselves to pack sciteam. So then it's not a problem?

For PUG players, running a Raptor/Escort without HE and TSS is a pretty suicidal notion. (especially because of 'peng hell requiring at least one HE).

EDIT: This forces players to run Advanced Escort or BoP, and to run with a more defensive setup, and that is just wrong, and reason enough to rethink SNB a bit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
08-09-2011, 04:23 AM
I think removing the cooldown increase from SNB could be fine. OR just have any team skill remove that. I don't really know if the 5 second duration of the science team also protects against SNB, but if not, it maybe should. 5 Second is little,but it adds a source of error for the attacker.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
08-09-2011, 04:27 AM
we NEED snb if the extreme stacking (of both dmg and healing) goes on.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
08-09-2011, 04:57 AM
Sometimes when i snub i feel a little guilty. However to make up for it i nerfed my ship with retrofit phasers and a reman shield. Self nerfing panther right here folks. No need to thank me just pay it forward
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 47
08-09-2011, 06:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dassem_Ultor
A cruiser with even a moderate defence skill can not be popped by a lone escort. Even with SNB.

Bloody hell, what are you?


Have you read the part where it clearly said "an unbuffed" ?


I was elaborating about how the base stats of all ships are way out of whack, especially base dps compared to hull hp. And that that is where the first step of fixing needs to be taken: achieve a proper balance between damage potential and hp.


Stop trying to cut the context.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 48
08-09-2011, 06:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerrus View Post
Are you purposefully ignoring the comments in this thread?

The 'counter' doesn't restore all the buffs it eliminated. That's the problem. The problem isn't the increased rechargetime, the problem is that it eliminates all active buffs on the target and that effect cannot be countered.

Until this changes, Subnuc will be clearly superior to the other profession's abilities at that tier, since that particular aspect cannot be countered.

But then, why am I even bothering explaining this to you, when you're just going to put your fingers in your ears and go 'na na na na I can't hear you!'?
So wait, in your scenario I SNB you, you hit sci team, and it is as though nothing happened. Wow, so why should I use this CAPTAIN skill exactly?

Removing the primary effect of a captain skill with an ENSIGN skill, just not good enough for you is it? Evidently a max of 30s of not using one particular skill is too much to ask.

You know Kerrus, it is very easy to accuse someone of being beligerant, while failing to recognise it in yourself.

I will quote Matteo, specifically the part you edited out...

Quote:
why the hell do people complain that the cooldowns go so fracking high!? the most the recharge ever actually gets delayed by is 30 seconds! sure the timer says 2-8 mins but once snb is gone it goes back to the time it was at before the snb hit you.

so its only ever 30 seconds of extra down time for a skill. EVER!"
Oh wait look, he acknowledged the secondary effect...wow, you're right, he's clearly ignoring points, unlike your good self, who would never edit a quote to suit your own purpose...

Quote:
Are you purposefully ignoring the comments in this thread?
Sorry, remind me again who said that?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 49
08-09-2011, 06:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo716 View Post
which can be cleared with science team of any level.


every skill has a counter, a few even have preemtive counters....


and one thing i dont understand

why the hell do people complain that the cooldowns go so fracking high!? the most the recharge ever actually gets delayed by is 30 seconds! sure the timer says 2-8 mins but once snb is gone it goes back to the time it was at before the snb hit you.

so its only ever 30 seconds of extra down time for a skill. EVER!
Its only a counter to get your Cooldowns back to normal, but it doesnt 'counter' the fact that all of your abilities are gone and you have to wait until they are back off cooldown.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
But these buffs are than responsible for a fully buffed Escort hardly making a dent in the target's shield. The damage buffs have already run out by the time the enemy cycles his next heal to negate it all.

That's why we need SNB.

SNB is not problematic. The problem is the dependence we have on buffs for damage and on buffs for resistance/heals. If buffs were less relevant, SNB wouldn't be as powerful. Buffs being as strong as they are, SNB is important, because it's the only way to get somethng killed.

SNB is the equalizer.
I disagree, Escorts should still be the ones which would have the task of getting someone down. What else is the purpose of escorts then? :p

What ur actually saying is that Science's should be the final blow to get a target down.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 50
08-09-2011, 06:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marctraider View Post
Its only a counter to get your Cooldowns back to normal, but it doesnt 'counter' the fact that all of your abilities are gone and you have to wait until they are back off cooldown.
And?

Again, even as is, SNB can be near useless, and now you seek to make it even less potent.
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