Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 71
08-21-2011, 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by champion1701 View Post
Where do you come off in thinking the Galaxy Class is that more powerful than the Sovereign?

Weapons:

Galaxy:

12-14 Phaser Arrays
2 Torpedo Launchers (1 Fore, 1 Aft)

Sovereign:

16 Phaser Arrays
10 Torpedo Launchers (4 Fore, 6 Aft)
none of these stats mean anything, arrays aren't guns that can all be fired at once, regardless of what this game shows, and torpedo launchers can ether be single shot or burst shot in varying degrees so the number of launchers doesn't mean anything ether. those 2 launchers the galaxy has can fire 4 bursts of 4 torpedoes in about 3 seconds, the most any launcher on the sovereign can fire is 1 burst of 4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by champion1701 View Post
The Sovereign was the modern replacement for the Galaxy, not a 'Advance Heavy Cruiser'. She was one of the most powerful ships that the Federation has at the time. She may of been smaller at 29 Decks, but that is only 12 decks less than a Galaxy, and that can be found in the neck. Even upgraded, the Galaxy, can not out perform a Sovereign Class. One thing they will have over her older sister is Bio-Neural circuitry, and no the Galaxy wouldn't of been upgraded. That is one system that would require too many resources to replace, just look at the mid 24th century Excelsiors, they did not have the newer Isolinier based computers of the Galaxy, she still has the old Duritronics from the late 23rd early 24th. Yes, brand new Excelsiors built around and after the Galaxy had the new computers, but they were more powerful too.
replacement for the Galaxy? nope its a replacement for the excelsior. the galaxy is a vastly larger ship, just shy of 2.5 times the volume of the Sovereign. a ship with such a smaller mass wouldn't make a very good replacement anyway. you can see how dwarfed it is here- http://imageshack.us/f/143/3axissizecompare.jpg/

"Comments made by Rick Sternbach on the TrekBBS give the Sovereign-class a designation of Heavy Cruiser, a mass of 3,205,000 metric tons, an apparent crew complement of 855, and a maximum cruising speed of warp 9.9. He also stated that it was the intent that the Sovereign-class be the replacement for the Excelsior-class starship."

what effect do gel packs have on phaser yield or shield strength or armor or the number of torpedoes that can be fired? all those gel packs do is enhance data transmission. and no they wouldn't be part of an upgraded because you said so. upgrading 1 ship or even dozens would be nothing to the engineers that keep tens of thousands of ships in service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by champion1701 View Post
There are many factors to the reasons behind the fact that the Sovereign Class is just more powerful than a Galaxy.

Tell me one thing about the Galaxy that is better than a Sovereign.

Because all of these systems are better:

Warp Drive
Warp Core
Sensors
Armor
Weapon Systems
Computer Systems
Turn Rate
Impulse Engines
Transporters

Not to mention it takes less crew to man, 750 instead of 1100.
Warp Drive- contently advancing, contently upgrading. multiple tng episodes were about warp drive being upgraded

Warp Core- the sovereign's warp core vs the galaxies warp core size has been hotly debated. ive seen evidence that the galaxy's reactor is ~1.5-3.0 times the size of the Sovereign's and ive seen evidence that they are approximately just as wide. but the sov's core is divided up into 5-7 mini accelerator columns, instead of 1 large accelerator column. those multiple columns have wasted space between them that is not present on the single accelerator column galaxy. im going with the galaxies core being more powerful, those multipal accelerator columns might have an control, redundancy, or efficiency advantage, but that single accelerator column if channeling more mater and antimatter overall.

Sensors- i don't recall seeing any external sensor arrays on the sovereign like you see on the intrepid, or in the rim or the saucer and secondary hull like the galaxy. that's a detail the designer missed completely. honestly though that's a wash, and easily upgradable

Armor- the sovereign might have ablative armor, but that was assumed and not exactly canon, but the galaxy has thicker armor. i have seen listed thickness of ~14-16 inches for the galaxy vs ~10-12 for the sovereign

Weapon Systems- the galaxies larger reactor allows for the much longer arrays and thus much more powerful phaser shots. i already explained why that is a page or 2 ago. The Sovereign does have Type-XII emitters, but that just means that each emitter puts out more energy, not that the entire phaser array puts out more energy. the Galaxy's has been seen putting out TREMENDOUS amounts of energy, several factors greater than the Sovereign's highest observed outputs, both in single-shot maximum output and sustained fire. the circumference of the Galaxy's main dorsal phaser array is approximately the same size as the circumference of the Sovereign's entire saucer section btw

The Sovereign does have Quantums, yes, but there is no known reason why any ship couldn't be equipped with them. the Galaxy has vastly superior launching potential like i said above, though the Sov has the advantage of torp launcher redundancy

Computer Systems- depends weather each ship has gel packs or not, i think everyone agrees they are 'best'

Turn Rate- irrelevant for a starfleet ship when you are equipped with phaser arrays with near 360 degree firing arcs. the only blind spots a galaxy has with its 2 main arrays are were the secondary hull is in their line of fire. also torpedoes are tracking weapons, they technically don't have arcs. An early episode of tng shows the Galaxy perform a 90 degrees rotation much faster than anything we have seen from the Sovereign, making the Galaxy cannonically more maneuverable

Impulse Engines well 3 vs 2 lol. no real data to argue about here

Transporters- again, no real data to argue about here

not sure why less crew would be better


overall, i believe a single galaxy class is worth ~2 Sovereigns in combat, and around ~3 akira class.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 72
08-21-2011, 05:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic_One View Post
CapnLogan's E to F side-by-side comparison

Also, just FYI, the Sovereign was 685 m and the Galaxy was 642 m.
Honestly they do look very very similar. From the front and Back there is almost no difference. Also the Sov was longer but not bigger in general.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 73
08-22-2011, 12:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinkuu_Akagan
Honestly they do look very very similar. From the front and Back there is almost no difference. Also the Sov was longer but not bigger in general.
that true, galaxy class was the biggest ship overall but the sovereign classes are the longest till now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 74
08-22-2011, 07:26 AM
Don't forget the E was refitted with additional weaponry to help fight the Borg.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 75
08-22-2011, 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonCapitan
Don't forget the E was refitted with additional weaponry to help fight the Borg.
ya it was outfiited the the latest weaponry.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 76
08-22-2011, 11:01 AM
E & F had similar color patterns in some of the initial screen shots. Outside of that the E & F are sufficiently different looking. Debating which ship is 'more powerful' is as immature and pointless as debating who was more 'powerful' between He-Man and the Power Rangers.

Besides, 'powerful' depends on the power output of the ship's reactor.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 77
08-22-2011, 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlkBugHunter View Post
no actually it was the Yorktown renamed Enterprise that's mention in a tech manual somewhere I believe (Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise) Memory Beta mentions the ship being the Ti-Ho and In FASA materials such as the Star Trek IV Sourcebook Update, the ship redesignated as the Enterprise-A was a newly-built vessel that was to be named USS Atlantis , but Memory Alpha says differently I usually go with what the Tech manuals say because they were out before the website was. She was still a new ship but just had a different name before being renamed Enterprise.
Finally someone got it right! I was starting to get worried people didnt know that
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 78
08-22-2011, 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisMullins View Post
Finally someone got it right! I was starting to get worried people didnt know that
i knew that and some where it is mentioned the enterprise e was orignally called the USS horines (spelling) is this correct?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 79
08-22-2011, 08:02 PM
As one of the Runner-ups to the DTNE Contest, I'm happy of Mr. Ihle's win. But as a Star Trek fan, I'm still not not pleased with the Odyssey's design being chosen for the Enterprise-F.

No offense to CapnLogan's hard work, but seeing E-F comparision, the Odyssey still feels more like a Refitted Sovereign than a new ship-class. Especially with the Saucer's similarities to the Sovereign and her having an angular nose, while all Enterprises had circuloid saucers.

But for a new Federation ship, she's acceptable.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 80
08-22-2011, 10:07 PM
I always assumed the heavy cruisers were designed for the infamous "5 year missions", where the Galaxy was designed for 7 year missions. Basically it's an extended heavy cruiser/explorer. More like a warp-capable starbase.

But back on the Sovereign vs. Galaxy: Sovereign, based on armament, would destroy a Galaxy.

Sovereign:
  • 16 Phaser arrays
  • 1 Forward Quantum Torpedo Launcher
  • 3 Forward Photon Torpedo Launchers
  • 6 Aft Photon Torpedo Launchers

Galaxy: (based on refit info from Memory Beta)
  • 11 Phaser Arrays
  • 2 Forward Torpedo Launchers
  • 1 Aft Torpedo Launchers

Armament, maneuverability, even the ship's profile means Sovereign > Galaxy. But hey, the Galaxy isn't meant to be the big dog in the combat arena. The Sovereign was designed to fight the Borg, it's more battleship than explorer, though it's outfitted to do both. The Galaxy beats it at exploration though because it can go farther without resupply.


As for the Odyssey... I'm not sold on the bulbous fore section of the secondary hull. To me it looks like a Star Cruiser and a Sovereign got together and made a baby and it grew up to be the Odyssey.
Though when you consider I'll be looking at it's rear most of the time, I don't really see much of a problem. It might look different in game.
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