Lt. Commander
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# 81
08-23-2011, 03:40 PM
The original Galaxy class ships were designed to litterally be floating cities, the reason they have so much bulk is that they have a huge crew, and then all of their families. It's designed to be able to tackle any situation a ship could experience in deepspace exploration, so it was larger to accomodate all the equipment, cargo bays, rec areas and quarters.

The Sovereign was designed for combat. So it lost a lot of the bulk and they created a much sleeker design. Now the Odyssey class is again designed to be a ship for all purposes. It's larger than the Sovereign for this purpose, and the result is a beefier looking ship. It has a lot of similarities between both the Sovereign and the Galaxy class ships, the side profile looks more like the Galaxy class than the Sovereign to me, it's just a bit more streamlined than the Galaxy. The hull of the Odyssey is similar to the Galaxy, especially from the front, yet the Nacelles are similar to the Sovereigns.

Essentially what the original designer and then Cryptic did was take the purpose of the Galaxy class and create a ship with the reoccuring design of the new Star Fleet ships.

You can see a reoccuring theme amongst many of the newer cruisers, especially the Star Cruisers and the Odyssey. The Odyssey has just taken the concept of the Galaxy and remould it to the aesthetics of the 25th century ships.
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# 82
08-23-2011, 11:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic_One View Post
Yes, the Galaxy has more mass: 3.28 million mt versus the Sovereigns 2.72 million mt. But most of the Galaxy's size comes from the saucer - designed to carry 1,000 civilian family members. I always thought having all the families on board was just stupid: especially considering how seldom Picard would separate the saucer to protect all those civilians.
Think of the saucer section as a space age air bag or something, it was the largest part of the ship (Or at very least presented a huge target) so the true motive was probably not 'they can take their families with them' but more "sweet, human shields we dont even have to enlist"
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# 83
08-23-2011, 11:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenel

The Sovereign was designed for combat.
Seems odd that the Federation claims to have no warships (or to build them) but goes ahead and makes a cruiser for combat, no wonder romulans do not like them, they are a walking contradiction!
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# 84
08-24-2011, 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paneth
Seems odd that the Federation claims to have no warships (or to build them) but goes ahead and makes a cruiser for combat, no wonder romulans do not like them, they are a walking contradiction!
ehe it was designed more precisely to deal with the borg in thus the following result it was far more combat orientated, but still able to preform any and all duties and vessel of exploration should be able to tackle.

the only warship the Federation designed, is the defiant, but they made that an escort on papers to please the politicians
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# 85
08-24-2011, 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liandras
ehe it was designed more precisely to deal with the borg in thus the following result it was far more combat orientated, but still able to preform any and all duties and vessel of exploration should be able to tackle.

the only warship the Federation designed, is the defiant, but they made that an escort on papers to please the politicians
Yeah, to be more accurate, the Sovereign was designed to combat the Borg threat. Star Fleets most powerful ship was the Galaxy class at the time, and as TNG showed time and time again, taking roughly 200+ civillians and non-essential personel into combat situations was not ideal, and building Galaxy class ships without the requirement to house and support is a little redundant. And so the Sovereign was born, a sleeker ship with a streamlined look and design built to do exactly what a Star Fleet cruiser should do, patrol the Neutral Zone, deepspace exploration and transport goods/refugees and what not.

The upcoming Odyssey class is again, increasing the bulk of the ship in line with the current Star Cruiser design without loading up with non-essential personel as the Galaxy class did.

It's a new ship for a new era, I for one love the desgin, it's in keeping with the current aestethics of the Star Cruiser yet taking a lot of pointers from the Assault Cruiser designs. it's technically the new Dreadnaught, the complete all in one Cruiser.
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# 86
08-24-2011, 03:47 PM
Sovereign as an Excelsior replacement rather than a Galaxy replacement... I honestly never thought of it that way, and that does make a lot more sense.

Still, how do you get the idea that the Sovereign is weaker than the Galaxy or less advanced?

Quote:
Galaxy:

12-14 Phaser Arrays
2 Torpedo Launchers (1 Fore, 1 Aft)

Sovereign:

16 Phaser Arrays
10 Torpedo Launchers (4 Fore, 6 Aft)
You might convince me that the two to four additional phaser arrays mean nothing, but how on earth can you say FIVE TIMES the torpedo launchers is still a step down? And honestly, do you really think that they wouldn't use similar, multi-burst launchers on the Sovereign, a ship we know was designed as a warship? Hell, the Sovereign even has a torpedo turret up front, a feature that automatically makes its fore torpedo launcher superior to the Galaxy's fixed launcher.

Frankly, the Sovereign is probably wholly inferior in terms of scientific and exploratory capability. The Galaxy would still beat the living hell out of it in those fields. But Starfleet would never have named a ship Enterprise that they didn't want to represent them in a nutshell. And this is a post-Dominion War, Borg-threatened Federation who would want to send a clear message to anyone considering messing with them; "We will frak you up if you force us." The Sovereign sends exactly that message.

tl;dr I'd argue that the ships are comparable overall, but the Sovereign is the superior combat vessel, if only slightly.
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# 87
08-24-2011, 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
none of what you said is backed up by on screen evidence (in fact its contradicted) or soft cannon technical manuals, the way i described them working is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
more nonsense. the movie producers succeeded perfectly, they made everyone think the sovereign class is the most powerful and bad *** thing ever. the series producers also did a good job making the galaxy look weak, the story is always more interesting if the crew is the underdog.

a galaxy class could have strait up out gunned the scimitar, just like a d'deridrex or negvar could too. the scimitar is a cradle for a super weapon, it was a battleship designed to protect that weapon at all costs and had the best defensive systems ever encountered. but its weapons were just a bunch of single shot torpedo launchers and cruiser level disruptor cannons. the heavy cruiser sovereign ent-E would have been disabled and boarded much more quickly if had true battleship cannons
yeah.. lets get the tech manual out shall we?

Tech Spec for Ambassador
tech Spec for Galaxy, class 1
Tech Spec for Galaxy, class 2 Yeah surprise fans, there are 2 classes of this ship.
Tech Spec for Sovereign

I found you the links, any can click and read the spec, and deside for yourself.

IN truth here is the real heavyweight of the cruiser bunch
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# 88
08-24-2011, 04:38 PM
the galaxy was designed to be the fleets newest do everything best, maximum range, supper exploration battleship. the previous design to hold that place was the ambassador class, and i figure this new odyssey is the next in that line. from a canon and trek science standpoint i don't think it does that great a job though, its weapons and everything else about it is undersized if its supposed to be an improvement on the galaxy class. by the looks of it, its mass is much less then the galaxy's and its phaser arrays are even shorter then the sovereign's. its lack of bulk may be explained away as a tier 1 power vs tier 1 power war time necessity, and its shrimpy weapons are just the unfortunate ignorance of the trek science behind arrays on Captain Logan's part.

it seems like more of a star cruiser variant because of all that, but whats the point of those existing anyway? it wouldn't make sense to have that many modern super huge cruisers. the enterprise F should have been one of the star cruiser and debuted a wile ago. this contest has left us with to many designs floating around with out adequate reasons for them existing.

maybe the star cruisers were designed to get themselves lost and then fly back to federation space. i can picture about a dozen or so star cruisers and deep space science vessels traveling through the bajorin worm hole and then flying back the long way, for the sake of exploring.

the ambassador/galaxy/nebula/odyssey exploration battleship type is meant to be command ships in fleets and explore the nearby frontiers without any support.

those assault cruisers like the sovereign, which are a kick down in size, power, and capability are the heavy cruisers of the fleet, and can be fairly autonomous as well, but can only do 2 out of 3 things well, or do 3 things peaty good. the sovereign and akira in particular were probably in response to growing threats like the unease of the Klingon alliance, borg, and various other escalating conflicts at the time and the woefully outdated ships that were the back bone of the fleet and served as starfleet's heavy cruisers like the excelsior.
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# 89
08-24-2011, 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexsam View Post
Sovereign as an Excelsior replacement rather than a Galaxy replacement... I honestly never thought of it that way, and that does make a lot more sense.

Still, how do you get the idea that the Sovereign is weaker than the Galaxy or less advanced?

You might convince me that the two to four additional phaser arrays mean nothing, but how on earth can you say FIVE TIMES the torpedo launchers is still a step down? And honestly, do you really think that they wouldn't use similar, multi-burst launchers on the Sovereign, a ship we know was designed as a warship? Hell, the Sovereign even has a torpedo turret up front, a feature that automatically makes its fore torpedo launcher superior to the Galaxy's fixed launcher.
a ship could have 1 extremely long phaser array and it could be more powerful then a ship with 20 smaller array. not all arrays are created equal, its power is based on how much energy can be sent through it and how much can be stored in the array and used in a shot.

the 2 launchers the galaxy has are huge complex facilities that take up a tone of room, all those launchers except 2 or 3 are extremely small and would only be large enough to load 1 to 3 at a time. the quantum 'turret', which is fixed and not a turret, is probably the most complex launcher, but only seams capable of a single burst of 4, which is all we have ever seen it fire, and probably all its capable of given the size of the launcher. i'll assuming the dual photon launcher under the deflector is 2 single burst of 4 launchers, but that's probably generous, its only been seen firing 1 burst of 2 each.

its kinda hard to tell from images of the actual cg model, which is the only 100% cannon diagram of the ship, but i think i have all those launchers mapped. the actual count of the launchers is the 1 bursting quantum launcher, the 2 bursting under deflector photon launcher, and a single shot launcher in front of the bridge. aft there's 2 launchers at the bottom of the secondary hull witch i assume burst just like those 2 front launchers, 1single shot launchers above and 1 below the lower shuttle bay, and a duel 2 burst shot launcher above the main shuttle bay.

forward it has a volley potential of 4 quantum's, and 9 photons max. aft it could volley 14 photons. that's my generous estimation of its torpedo firepower, there's really no evidence it has any launcher bursting more then 2 or 3 other then the quantum launcher.

compared to the galaxies 2 launchers that fire 4 bursts of 4 in each direction with a volley of 16 in each direction. that's actually a low ball, Ive argued with some who think each launcher can fire 6 bursts of 4, a 24 volley each without reloading.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexsam View Post
Frankly, the Sovereign is probably wholly inferior in terms of scientific and exploratory capability. The Galaxy would still beat the living hell out of it in those fields. But Starfleet would never have named a ship Enterprise that they didn't want to represent them in a nutshell. And this is a post-Dominion War, Borg-threatened Federation who would want to send a clear message to anyone considering messing with them; "We will frak you up if you force us." The Sovereign sends exactly that message.

tl;dr I'd argue that the ships are comparable overall, but the Sovereign is the superior combat vessel, if only slightly.
its a new impressive ship, definitely the most powerful ship its size by far, fitting for the name enterprise. but a galaxy can still do everything better then it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongoson View Post
yeah.. lets get the tech manual out shall we?

Tech Spec for Ambassador
tech Spec for Galaxy, class 1
Tech Spec for Galaxy, class 2 Yeah surprise fans, there are 2 classes of this ship.
Tech Spec for Sovereign

I found you the links, any can click and read the spec, and deside for yourself.

IN truth here is the real heavyweight of the cruiser bunch
doesn't prove anything? and as you can see, the even the ambassador class as bigger then a sovereign. that second galaxy is likely a galaxy's stats after a refit, probably during the dominion war. the Prometheus is hard to gauge, it was written to be majorly more powerful then it should have been capable of. that happens a lot, the hero ship is written as the underdog to create drama all the time. voyager had as much trouble fighting kazzan as it did fighting the borg.
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# 90
08-25-2011, 06:04 AM
As much as i like the galaxy....


dontdrunkimshoot to everything you have said = Proof please.
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