Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
08-23-2011, 03:22 AM
I would surely not abject to have the 7of9 suit available for my orion.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
08-23-2011, 07:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptiecop
There are KDF players who do actually make toons using the "Alien" character and they have been making Romulan and Cardassian specific looking toons, so that was why I even posted that part for clothing options...just a quick FYI
I am aware of that, I've seen recruiting posts and in Qo'noS zone chat for Cardassian and Romulan fleets; but everybody knows that the Romulans will be the next faction released and the Cardassians would likely be the next faction released. When that happens all of those fleets will switch sides and the KDF will still be there with costume options that violate canon; it's bad enough that the Faction was made barren by Cryptic, please don't insult the actual Klingon players further by making the faction a hold-over spot.

Regardless you don't serve the Romulan Star Empire or Cardassia by serving in the Klingon Defense Forces, it would be an insult to both sides; if you were going to make both species playable then give them both to the Federation as they're the understanding ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilCell View Post
If you limit the game only to the offical cannon, then you have to eliminate the non-Klingons (player races as well as ships) from the KDF faction. You will also find that it would be completely impossible to make the KDF into a playable affiliation using only offical cannon lore. That is my point. Try to be open to probable and likely possible options rather than reject every non-offical cannon idea out of hand. I will agree that some of the more outlanidsh ideas should be ignored, but only after a multipoint justification for why not is presented.
You're correct that canon would demand that non-Klingon players be eliminated from the Klingon Defense Forces, and I'm not about to agree to compounding the mistake by agreeing to one of the single biggest canon violations by having the dishonorable Romulans (blood enemies of the Empire) serving in the Klingon Defense Forces.

You yourself said that some of the more outlandish ideas should be ignored, Romulans serving in the Empire is just one of those ideas as it spits in the face of everything. You want me to give you canon (and STO-lore) reasons why the two hate each other? Because there are more than a few....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
08-23-2011, 08:39 AM
I think the misunderstanding is that there are things that are "digestible" (I have no problem with regarding Orions, Nausicaans and Gorn as allies to the KDF - the game simply effectively forces us all into the same boat for reasons of simplicity) and things that are quite simply so silly and unbelievable (sorry, but it's true.) that they should be dismissed right from the start in order to preserve atmosphere.

Really, we already have Starfleet for the "anything is possible" players who want to have Alien Orions wearing Terran Empire uniforms crewing Vulcan Cruisers from the 21st century with a bridge crew full of half-naked girls equipped with tetryon cannons and bat'leths. Why do we have to mess up the KDF as well? Let's try to keep a distinct style for at least one faction, alright?

Players abusing Alien Chargen to circumvent the natural restrictions of the setting to create not aliens but rather species not suitable for the faction they are played on are, in my opinion, exploiting the system at the cost of others' immersion - and if I could I would try to subdue and arrest them at any given time I see them on Qo'noS. You will understand that I feel a slight objection against the prospect of my ability to ignore things being stretched even further here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sivar View Post
You yourself said that some of the more outlandish ideas should be ignored, Romulans serving in the Empire is just one of those ideas as it spits in the face of everything.
Actually, he has some sort of point there - some Klingons have worked together with Romulans in the past and some are doing it in STO as well (remember that mission in the Lowlands?), so there may be cases where I could actuall see Romulan characters working next to Klingon ones. Of course not as members of the KDF and flying missions for it, but roleplaying allies to those characters who are low enough on pride and honour to consider such a pact. The problem is that this would quite simply get out of hand, and where it could make sense for a single roleplayer with a good story, there will be 99.999 other players who will do it just for lulz, and those are the ones we will see messing up our perception of the First City.

Some options should remain barred simply due to missing "quality control", else it gets out of hand. I mean, just look at these examples with the Romulan and Cardassian fleets. I've actually seen a Romulan publicly introducing himself as an agent of the Tal Shiar once. IN THE GREAT HALL.
I see no reason to encourage such things even further.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
08-23-2011, 09:50 AM
One more reason for open world wide PvP
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
08-23-2011, 11:02 AM
Klingons need more everything. Some more modern looking KDF armor would be nice, as would some KDF Specific body armor designs we could toss on when we equip armor instead of having it always have the visuals off. Mercenary gear would be... well it should already be on the KDF side there's no reason it shouldn't be. Some bare chested uniforms for the males and the boob window uniforms the Duras sisters wore would be a nice addition as well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
08-23-2011, 06:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
I think the misunderstanding is that there are things that are "digestible" (I have no problem with regarding Orions, Nausicaans and Gorn as allies to the KDF - the game simply effectively forces us all into the same boat for reasons of simplicity) and things that are quite simply so silly and unbelievable (sorry, but it's true.) that they should be dismissed right from the start in order to preserve atmosphere.

Really, we already have Starfleet for the "anything is possible" players who want to have Alien Orions wearing Terran Empire uniforms crewing Vulcan Cruisers from the 21st century with a bridge crew full of half-naked girls equipped with tetryon cannons and bat'leths. Why do we have to mess up the KDF as well? Let's try to keep a distinct style for at least one faction, alright?

Players abusing Alien Chargen to circumvent the natural restrictions of the setting to create not aliens but rather species not suitable for the faction they are played on are, in my opinion, exploiting the system at the cost of others' immersion - and if I could I would try to subdue and arrest them at any given time I see them on Qo'noS. You will understand that I feel a slight objection against the prospect of my ability to ignore things being stretched even further here.

Actually, he has some sort of point there - some Klingons have worked together with Romulans in the past and some are doing it in STO as well (remember that mission in the Lowlands?), so there may be cases where I could actuall see Romulan characters working next to Klingon ones. Of course not as members of the KDF and flying missions for it, but roleplaying allies to those characters who are low enough on pride and honour to consider such a pact. The problem is that this would quite simply get out of hand, and where it could make sense for a single roleplayer with a good story, there will be 99.999 other players who will do it just for lulz, and those are the ones we will see messing up our perception of the First City.

Some options should remain barred simply due to missing "quality control", else it gets out of hand. I mean, just look at these examples with the Romulan and Cardassian fleets. I've actually seen a Romulan publicly introducing himself as an agent of the Tal Shiar once. IN THE GREAT HALL.
I see no reason to encourage such things even further.
Thank you for backing me up on most of my points. I will point out taht you don't have to interact with those who are supposedly abusing the game to create off the wall characters. Believe me when I say that some of the Foundry missions I have played, while not inappropriate, have certainly not been what I would consider respectible behavior for a Starfleet Officer. Same goes for some of the KDF Foundry missions.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
08-24-2011, 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilCell View Post
I will point out taht you don't have to interact with those who are supposedly abusing the game to create off the wall characters.
Absolutely, but (unlike, say, Foundry missions that I have to start up myself and can leave at anytime) I still have to "register" them in my perception, and this has a slight negative effect on my enjoyment of the game. I just like the atmosphere and do believe it does not have to be destroyed just because there are many people without any regard for the setting whatsoever. I play both factions in this game, so I only need to look at Starfleet social instances to see the results of an "anything goes" approach - a zoo without any consistency or solid theme. Personally, I just would not want to have that. Especially when this is already possible on one side, so the people who like it can all just go there and leave the KDF alone.

It is regrettable but, imho, unavoidable that the few players who would actually be able to come up with a good reason and play the role accordingly are still restricted to the normal options for "average" KDF characters. Actually, I think the Alien CharGen, Liberated Borg and Trill are already too much. The Klingon Empire isn't the Federation, and exceptions like they do exist in the official canon should remain exceptions, not a daily sight in the game. But that's just me and my "extremist" PoV in terms of preserving the atmosphere. One should assume that the "full" species we have is already more than enough. Why do people play KDF, anyways, if they don't like its style?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
08-24-2011, 09:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
I think the misunderstanding is that there are things that are "digestible" (I have no problem with regarding Orions, Nausicaans and Gorn as allies to the KDF - the game simply effectively forces us all into the same boat for reasons of simplicity) and things that are quite simply so silly and unbelievable (sorry, but it's true.) that they should be dismissed right from the start in order to preserve atmosphere.
I don't have a problem with Orions, Gorn (and by extension the Nausicaans) being our allies either, but I do have a problem with the way that Cryptic has done it, which has effectively made everybody equals in the Empire and, from the dialogue of the NPCs, makes the Klingons look like idiots as the other species are seen plotting or otherwise loathing their situation.

I have seen the various RP-breaking people in zone on Qo'noS as well, the most recent being an all Cardassian fleet that requires its members to create Cardassians....there is no reason to encourage further things like that by giving them the uniforms of the said factions. If anything then give them to the Federation as they are the ones who tolerate everything and preach that 'all races can be united' and that's just not the way that the Empire works....

The KDF needs more uniform options, but do not give them the uniform options of other factions just for the sake of having more uniform options. The Foundry is one thing and options can be built into engines like that so that they are available only through the UGC, but don't put it into the main game.......
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
08-25-2011, 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sivar View Post
I don't have a problem with Orions, Gorn (and by extension the Nausicaans) being our allies either, but I do have a problem with the way that Cryptic has done it, which has effectively made everybody equals in the Empire and, from the dialogue of the NPCs, makes the Klingons look like idiots as the other species are seen plotting or otherwise loathing their situation.
Oh, I know what you mean - but that's MMO nature, I fear. Cryptic was in the tight spot here that they couldn't make it right for everyone. If those dialogues would be missing, a whole lot of players would not register these aspects of the background at all.

It's not very elegant, but it is simply a means of transmitting small pieces of lore to whoever is watching. Of course it would be cool if these dialogues would be "species-sensitive" (such as different species of player characters reading different things in the same chat bubbles), but that's additional work, and as we all know the game was a little bit rushed. Especially the KDF parts.

Similarly, if the species would not be treated equal, a lot of players who do not appreciate limitations would complain about it. It seems a large group of players just loathes limitations, even where they fit or are even necessary to the setting - just look at this thread, for example.

We can be fortunate that the current background establishes at least partially that things are not as "easy-going" as they may seem on the first glance - for example Letheans being herded into slums, or Orions keeping their alliance with the Klingon Empire working by means of seduction and manipulation. I even deem the secessionist movement amongst the Gorn to be fitting, for after all they were practically conquered and forced into the current union, even if it was more or less for their own good.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
08-25-2011, 05:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
Oh, I know what you mean - but that's MMO nature, I fear. Cryptic was in the tight spot here that they couldn't make it right for everyone. If those dialogues would be missing, a whole lot of players would not register these aspects of the background at all.

It's not very elegant, but it is simply a means of transmitting small pieces of lore to whoever is watching. Of course it would be cool if these dialogues would be "species-sensitive" (such as different species of player characters reading different things in the same chat bubbles), but that's additional work, and as we all know the game was a little bit rushed. Especially the KDF parts.

Similarly, if the species would not be treated equal, a lot of players who do not appreciate limitations would complain about it. It seems a large group of players just loathes limitations, even where they fit or are even necessary to the setting - just look at this thread, for example.

We can be fortunate that the current background establishes at least partially that things are not as "easy-going" as they may seem on the first glance - for example Letheans being herded into slums, or Orions keeping their alliance with the Klingon Empire working by means of seduction and manipulation. I even deem the secessionist movement amongst the Gorn to be fitting, for after all they were practically conquered and forced into the current union, even if it was more or less for their own good.
I know what you mean, doesn't mean that I like it though as like you I was here well before launch with a lot of hopes for this game.

Regardless of where the faction is now, where it's been, where we hoped it would be, or where it's going, there is still no good reason to dilute a major faction in the game by adding the uniform options of other factions into the main game. To do so does nothing but cheapen the faction as a whole and damage its overall RP value, and there is no way around that .
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