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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
08-21-2011, 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
It's overpowered in its tier. No one is claiming it can beat up a Tier 5 ship. But there is no regular in-game situation where it has to compete with a Sovereign - it only has to compete with other Tier 2 ships. And there it's better than any other.
You make it sound like t2 pvp is pretty hopping. It isnt... no one really pvps until they get to VA or whatever the KDF version is.

My only qualm with the RI is that the console is hilariously bugged right now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
08-21-2011, 02:51 PM
The excel and nebula arent anything like a .5 ship. They have the exact same boff layout. Only diff might be in turnrate/crew which is a biggggg non factor in the game atm. At T3 +1 turn isnt anything at VA in a cruiser its much more valueable and i still wouldnt consider the T5 versions of any retrofit a .5.

The previous retrofits are actually balanced with the other reg T5s, what i dont understand is why the R.I. was obviously and clearly never intended to be balanced. The GalX gets the lance/cloak/dhc abilities but loses a console and load of turnrate making the DHC ability pretty much all but worthless. DHC on galx = Negated. The cloak is only good for an alpha or serveying the battlefield, pretty worthless in pve, you give up a console to get it. -26% energy dmg console at VA lvl = Cloak - Virtually Negated. The lance, you get roughly the same dmg as a BO3 for what used to take the rear weapon slot,

The lance is on a long cooldown, with limited firing arc, limitied aoe potential from it. The turnrate also nearly negates this ability to nothing but an alpha or a lucky finishing move, a BO2 on your boff fires much more friequently, lets you use ANY dmg type not just PHASER, and you also could get that +26% phaser console back on the assault cruiser with more turn rate. Even though you basicly get the lance for free thanks to the 4th rear weapon slot being added on its still not much of a help.

End result phaser lance = religated to limited use no better than any current boff ability like it for the most part. So go ahead after my explaination tell me how the Galx is an OP ship, and I can do this break down for EVERY retrofit except 1, the R.I.

I own all the fed retrofits except the RI, if you play the game enough you know how much gaining a Boff slot can be. Thats why when the Excel didnt get a LTC tac, it swapped the LT tac with the LTC eng. It didnt out right gain more boff slots like the R.I. It gained dmg for sacing surviability which is a perfect solution hit harder get hit harder JUST like an escort.

R.I. doesnt just effect pve, there is low lvl pvp even if you dont do it others might. I said in another thread if they start off with a Tier no one cares about they can keep putting out more at higher tiers and say look we did it at T2 and you said nothing. They made it very clear they plan to do this to ALL tiers, I dont want to see 3 ships in pvp or pve i want diversity like in ST. BTW the NX/Oberth/TOS arent OP T1s, a single console slot giving all of 2-5% at that level is soooo neglagable its not even funny. But if you gave them a LT sci/tac/eng and the miranda nothing then yes it would be JUST LIKE THE RI.

End class. Stand. Bow. Dismissed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
08-21-2011, 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JToney3449 View Post
The excel and nebula arent anything like a .5 ship. They have the exact same boff layout. Only diff might be in turnrate/crew which is a biggggg non factor in the game atm. At T3 +1 turn isnt anything at VA in a cruiser its much more valueable and i still wouldnt consider the T5 versions of any retrofit a .5.

The previous retrofits are actually balanced with the other reg T5s, what i dont understand is why the R.I. was obviously and clearly never intended to be balanced. The GalX gets the lance/cloak/dhc abilities but loses a console and load of turnrate making the DHC ability pretty much all but worthless. DHC on galx = Negated. The cloak is only good for an alpha or serveying the battlefield, pretty worthless in pve, you give up a console to get it. -26% energy dmg console at VA lvl = Cloak - Virtually Negated. The lance, you get roughly the same dmg as a BO3 for what used to take the rear weapon slot,

The lance is on a long cooldown, with limited firing arc, limitied aoe potential from it. The turnrate also nearly negates this ability to nothing but an alpha or a lucky finishing move, a BO2 on your boff fires much more friequently, lets you use ANY dmg type not just PHASER, and you also could get that +26% phaser console back on the assault cruiser with more turn rate. Even though you basicly get the lance for free thanks to the 4th rear weapon slot being added on its still not much of a help.

End result phaser lance = religated to limited use no better than any current boff ability like it for the most part. So go ahead after my explaination tell me how the Galx is an OP ship, and I can do this break down for EVERY retrofit except 1, the R.I.

I own all the fed retrofits except the RI, if you play the game enough you know how much gaining a Boff slot can be. Thats why when the Excel didnt get a LTC tac, it swapped the LT tac with the LTC eng. It didnt out right gain more boff slots like the R.I. It gained dmg for sacing surviability which is a perfect solution hit harder get hit harder JUST like an escort.

R.I. doesnt just effect pve, there is low lvl pvp even if you dont do it others might. I said in another thread if they start off with a Tier no one cares about they can keep putting out more at higher tiers and say look we did it at T2 and you said nothing. They made it very clear they plan to do this to ALL tiers, I dont want to see 3 ships in pvp or pve i want diversity like in ST. BTW the NX/Oberth/TOS arent OP T1s, a single console slot giving all of 2-5% at that level is soooo neglagable its not even funny. But if you gave them a LT sci/tac/eng and the miranda nothing then yes it would be JUST LIKE THE RI.

End class. Stand. Bow. Dismissed.
The big descision one has to make with the tier 2.5 ship is "do I want the short cooldown now, or later when I upgrade?" If a true tier 3.5 ship comes out later, this decision may be eliminated, but I still don't want these ships in the C-Store *at all.*
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
08-21-2011, 03:29 PM
I want all the retrofits to have their abilties placed into a console format just like the R.I and the MVAM promethus. Id actually use my galaxy if it got a 3rd tac console back by removing the saucer seperation.
The R.I. needs balanced just like the rest of them were, it should be a simple T2 not a T2.5. Either make it a
T2 or T3 no in between. The galaxy X was more like a 4.5 in power before its overhaul except that it was in the T5 bracket of ships making it under perform. This is the opposite.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
08-21-2011, 03:33 PM
The "there is no PvP at T2" argument is ridiculous. KDF at this point pretty much have to do PvP at every level in order to rank up anywhere near quickly. The Rhode Island IS OP because it has the SAME attributes as the T2 Nova but has an EXTRA LT SLOT and an EXTRA CONSOLE SLOT. That makes it out right better than any other ship in the T2 range because it has an unfair advantage, period. The only possible argument that it's not OP is to argue that the T2 Nova is significantly underpowered for T2 (havn't seen that arguement yet).

The main worry is the precedent it sets, but even bigger than that really is it pollutes the game's brand new players. When they come in to the game and at LTC level they say "hey! theres PvP that i can do, lets try it." and they get destroyed by the RI they say "Oh i have to buy that with cash." and they'll either decide to do it or to get mad and leave the game. With them coming out with 16 new ship in all tiers that may or may not be this way (DStahl and others continually fail to say simply yes or no on that) these new players who decide to buy that ship are more likely to buy the others. When the player base is all buying these ships that ARE OP compared to the regular subscription ships, that DOES make it P2W.

Simple as that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
08-21-2011, 04:11 PM
The RI is not pay to win or OP. Is it more powerful than the Nova? Yes. Can I use the RI to win against any Nova or T2? No. That depends on the skill of the player and skillful PvP players are just as likely to destroy an RI with a Nova. OP implies that I can use this ship to destroy any ship that I encounter with little difficulty. If a ship exists that makes PvP skill meaningless in getting kills, then it is OP. A ship with an ability that makes it invulnerable for 2 minutes would be OP. Launching a Nuke that destroys all ships in the vicinity would be OP.

The only way to prove the RI is OP to the Nova is to set up a bunch of PvP matches between RI and Novas. Both players would have to have the same level of skill in PvP with one in the RI and one in the Nova. I believe the win/loss ratio should be about 50%. If the win/loss ratio is about 10%, then we have proof that the RI is OP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
08-21-2011, 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starkaos View Post
Is it more powerful than the Nova? Yes.
Then it's OP. Thanks for your support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by starkaos View Post
OP implies that I can use this ship to destroy any ship that I encounter with little difficulty.
No it doesn't. The terms means (not implies) that it is overpowered, as in, beyond the established power level (read: More powerful, you know, what you just acknowledged). That it is not balanced.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
08-21-2011, 04:36 PM
Ok look, yes your right everything comes down to skill level of the players. The problem is with the RI is now I have one more power to use against a Nova and an extra passive ability from the extra console. Yes everything comes down to the player, but in that since a Miranda can take a Sovereign. And yes an experienced PvPer can take out a noob in a RI with a Nova, but with to Experienced PvPers the point is the RI has innate advantages over the Nova, therefore statistically the RI is better than the Nova with no drawbacks point blank. Unless you want to argue that the Nova is worse than the other T2 ships, if so i would love to hear that argument if you can make it.

Simply put your argument is that any ship is better than any other depending on who's in it, I agree but it has nothing to do with what we're talking about. All it does is take attention away from the subject at hand. If you don't like people continuing to talk on this post about this subject then either make an intelligent argument or don't read the post. No one is forcing you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
08-21-2011, 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanshi View Post
The big descision one has to make with the tier 2.5 ship is "do I want the short cooldown now, or later when I upgrade?" If a true tier 3.5 ship comes out later, this decision may be eliminated, but I still don't want these ships in the C-Store *at all.*
Thing is, in every T2 ship I've every used, I have two on-specialty officers anyway, switching who has the Lt console depending on the situation, and I can keep both those guys comfortably supplied with BOff SP. With the RI, there is no need to choose, just always advantage. I don't see this as a valid drawback.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
08-21-2011, 04:46 PM
So, we that complain about possible wide sweeping changes that can negatively impact not just ourselves in our own isolated corner of space but the game overall are crybabies? We, that want our pvp'ers/fleet action players/ noobs/ allied fleets/ fleetmates/ our pvp competition to have the same fair shake that we want for ourselves are whiners? Wow, if it were simply an issue of what affects just me, I 'd just C-Store all the upcoming ships. Why not? I own all the previous ones from both factions. But I refuse to encourage the devs with this tier x.5 nonsense.
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