Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Taxes on Cryptic points
08-22-2011, 06:02 PM
Can someone explain to me how the tax systems works for Cryptic?

Just curious how they are working out the charge of tax on my transactions?
(From Ireland by the way, not sure how it works for USA, etc)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
08-22-2011, 10:31 PM
If they're going to charge you a tax, I would believe it would only be for the initial purchase of the C-Store points and not after purchases with those points.

Hopefully that was something you were looking for.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
08-22-2011, 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphs View Post
Can someone explain to me how the tax systems works for Cryptic?

Just curious how they are working out the charge of tax on my transactions?
(From Ireland by the way, not sure how it works for USA, etc)
If you're in a country outsude the U.S.; they add an VAT said country may impose on internet purchased goods/services, whatever it is.

As for the U.S. - if the state you're playing from has a tax on internet goods and services, they'll add that too.

But as the person above me stated it's only at the time you make an actual money transaction (IE sub renewal, or C-Point purchase.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
08-25-2011, 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armsman View Post
If you're in a country outsude the U.S.; they add an VAT said country may impose on internet purchased goods/services, whatever it is.

As for the U.S. - if the state you're playing from has a tax on internet goods and services, they'll add that too.

But as the person above me stated it's only at the time you make an actual money transaction (IE sub renewal, or C-Point purchase.)
Its been a while since ive made a purchase with my UK card, but it used to be that none of the prices showed the added VAT at all - till you were 'done' with the transaction and noticed the amount hitting your bank is oddly 17.5% higher
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
08-25-2011, 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikonov
Its been a while since ive made a purchase with my UK card, but it used to be that none of the prices showed the added VAT at all - till you were 'done' with the transaction and noticed the amount hitting your bank is oddly 17.5% higher
Mpst bsystems don't show it because they can't charge the VAT until you authorize the transaction and it gfoes out and charges your card - that's when the card company comes back and adds the required tax/VAT of your State/Counrty (If Any). But, it's your state/government adding to the price, not the retailler.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
08-26-2011, 12:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armsman View Post
Mpst bsystems don't show it because they can't charge the VAT until you authorize the transaction and it gfoes out and charges your card - that's when the card company comes back and adds the required tax/VAT of your State/Counrty (If Any). But, it's your state/government adding to the price, not the retailler.
Please provide a concrete example of another global web store that behaves in this frankly deceptive manner.

Specifically one with a process that:
  • Lists a specific amount on the website.
  • Allows the customer to approve this amount.
  • Delivers a receipt to the customer that states they have paid the original amount with no additional extras.
  • Deducts the tax from the customer's credit card without informing them of the amount deducted.

If it were as common as "Most Systems" would suggest, then maybe it wouldn't be an issue to so many customers.

'Hidden Charges' appear dishonest across every line of business. Especially when the retailer makes no effort to list them as part of the transaction. Hiding behind a two-sentence disclaimer is no substitute for doing it right in the first place.

Why anyone would choose to defend hiding these charges is beyond me. Other companies make an effort to list tax correctly and keep the customer informed. It's not the paying of tax that's the problem - it's the way the process has been obfuscated.

It's bad programming at best. A desperate money grab at worst.

Why defend it?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
08-26-2011, 12:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeathenStorm View Post
Please provide a concrete example of another global web store that behaves in this frankly deceptive manner.

Specifically one with a process that:
  • Lists a specific amount on the website.
  • Allows the customer to approve this amount.
  • Delivers a receipt to the customer that states they have paid the original amount with no additional extras.
  • Deducts the tax from the customer's credit card without informing them of the amount deducted.

If it were as common as "Most Systems" would suggest, then maybe it wouldn't be an issue to so many customers.

'Hidden Charges' appear dishonest across every line of business. Especially when the retailer makes no effort to list them as part of the transaction. Hiding behind a two-sentence disclaimer is no substitute for doing it right in the first place.

Why anyone would choose to defend hiding these charges is beyond me. Other companies make an effort to list tax correctly and keep the customer informed. It's not the paying of tax that's the problem - it's the way the process has been obfuscated.

It's bad programming at best. A desperate money grab at worst.

Why defend it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by STO payment form(STO HP)
EU Value Added Tax(VAT)
Prices displayed are not inclusive of VAT and/or other applicable local taxes. Purchases from European Union (EU). VAT is charged in accordance with the local legislation in each member state and varies from 15%-25%.
The amount being deducted is really easy to calculate and your countries VAT is general knowledge there.
The frame clearly states that VAT will be deducted. So talking about hidden charges is definitely wrong.
I do however concur if you say that its not the kind of invoice my country's finance offices likes to see .

But why claiming that this is money grabbing when the correct amount is deducted? They are not the ones getting these extra 15-25%, but your state.
I do however suspect that its not Cryptic who is delivering the VAT to the countries fiscal offices, but your credit institute, which would actually make it their problem and not Cryptics.

I can just tell you how it works in austria, and probably everywhere else too.

When you buy X you have to pay amount Y + VAT.
The store collects Amount Y + VAT and later delivers the VAT to the finance office.
And yes I am aware that Amazon lists your VAT correctly when sending an invoice, the difference however is that Amazon has offices and depots all oer the world while Cryptic has just the one(s) in the US.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
08-26-2011, 01:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt_Dracon_Darknight View Post
The amount being deducted is really easy to calculate and your countries VAT is general knowledge there.
The frame clearly states that VAT will be deducted. So talking about hidden charges is definitely wrong.
I have yet to see another company that does things this way.

And bear in mind the disclaimer was only added after enough customers complained about excess charges.

Subscription rates in the UK were originally listed at the same price point as comparable games like WoW. It was only after subscribing that the first rush of players noticed they were being charged more for less.

Quote:
I do hoever concur if you say that its not the kind of invoice my country's finance offices likes to see
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt_Dracon_Darknight View Post
And yes I am aware that Amazon lists your VAT correctly when sending an invoice, the difference however is that Amazon has offices and depots all oer the world while Cryptic has just the one(s) in the US.
I've ordered from companies around the globe, many that don't have European offices; and they have all listed VAT correctly, prior to final confirmation.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
08-26-2011, 02:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeathenStorm View Post
I have yet to see another company that does things this way.

And bear in mind the disclaimer was only added after enough customers complained about excess charges.

Subscription rates in the UK were originally listed at the same price point as comparable games like WoW. It was only after subscribing that the first rush of players noticed they were being charged more for less.
For less is a matter of view .
I actually quit playing WoW a few months before STO got released, and honestly: I don't cry after it.
While STO does indeed miss many things WoW already had from start (like swimming ind diving), STO still has other points making it more attractive than WOW.
For example: STO had better graphics when it launched than WOW after its, I believe second or third attempt to make them better.
They are OK now though.

Plus, the dev team is also a lot more receptive for constructive critique and suggestions than Blizzard.

Quote:
Exactly.
I have to add though that the invoices I'm talking about are meant for companies to get charge the VAT off.
90% of the casual invoices being issued are are horror for everyone having learned to how to write a correct one.
08/15 invoices only fullfill the minimum requirements.

Quote:
I've ordered from companies around the globe, many that don't have European offices; and they have all listed VAT correctly, prior to final confirmation.
If I had to guess I would say its the difference between paying playtime fees and actually getting goods.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
08-26-2011, 03:04 PM
Like others have said, out of all the MMOs both f2p/p2p ive played over the last few years, STO is the ONLY one to pull the whole 'suprise bank charge' deal, most will always have their VAT factored into the price or stated in the transaction seperatly beforehand

Infact many places(games) dont add the 17.5% at all due to the whole grey area about wether or not digital downloads can be taxed across the UKs different 'countrys' : i worked for HM revenue/customs in college and still dont fully grasp the rules that have come into place over the last few year:many of them being replaced/voided as soon as they were put into place ( thats the EU for you )

Looking at the prices of US c-points vs UK c-points, we get screwed anyway : i recommend everyone just finds a trusted US based friend to buy C-point vouchers for them

Cost Comparison:
<500 Cryptic Points>
UK Cstore : 4.00 GBP/ $6.55 USD + 17.5% @ 0.70 = 4.70 GBP/$7.70 USD
vs
US Cstore : $6.25 USD/ 3.80 GBP
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