Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
08-26-2011, 01:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naevius
The only problem is that the PvP population is already small. It's sort of a chicken-and-egg problem.
You cant blame ppl. Lovely cryptic dont do anything to attract ppl to pvp. If they do something its worst than before.

Im not trollig etc. Its the truth.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
08-26-2011, 02:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle-Phoenix View Post
You cant blame ppl. Lovely cryptic dont do anything to attract ppl to pvp. If they do something its worst than before.

Im not trollig etc. Its the truth.
But trolling with the truth is even better

And yes, I understand what he was saying but look at it this way too. If the population was much larger the chances of running into the same premades in the que would be rarer which I think would make all this a moot point.

Its because the pop is so small the run ins with a group of people playing together stands out more then if there was a larger pop.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
08-26-2011, 02:42 AM
On the other hand, you can just suck it up.

I was against a pre-made a while ago, can't recall who, maybe RE, and we got 1 kill. Considering the circumstances, I was quite pleased. When you are facing a pre-made, you need to alter your expectations. You are going to die, so instead take pride in making it hard for them, or getting at least 1 kill.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
08-26-2011, 02:49 AM
The OP is absolutely right.
And what is to blame for the shrinking pvp player base ? ( i mean besides cryptic bugs and such)
if not this elitistic view on premade fleet teams on the game. " Join a"good" ( exploiting,spamming hell) fleet and you ll see "..BS ! Why cant the casual pvper have fun in this game ?
There should be a a queue differentiation among fleet/premades and pugs.Otherwise in a few months you ll end up seeing nothing but a handfull of premade fleets in pvp in a boring repetitive competition of which team have mastered the latest exploit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
08-26-2011, 02:53 AM
Any solution that introduces some kind of "shallow waters" for newbies will lead to an influx of new people into PvP - people who are interested in PvP but don't want to leave their current fleet just for that, and are discouraged early on by the steamrolling a premade usually gives an inexperienced team.

But yeah, the problem is with separate "random" and "team" queues is that the established PvP enthusiast playerbase gets screwed in the process.

Personally, I'd prefer a ranking-based matchmaking system. That could offer a lot more flexibility - for example, the '"acceptable difference" for a team in waiting could increase over time. Partial teams would also fit better into this system than into a '"team-only" queue. The obvious problem is that this system would be a great deal more difficult to design and implement, given that it has to solve a complex optimization problem whose parameters keep changing over time...

So, we have to consider that the split queues are a more realistic option, given Cryptic's shortage of programmer work time to spend on this. So, what could a PvP fleet do in that system? Mix it up a little. Sign up for the randomized queues, and start campaigning aggressively and recruiting the promising players. After they've had a taste of success, and gained enough experience to recognize how much more there is to PvP, they might be more inclined to join a PvP fleet.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
08-26-2011, 03:03 AM
The problem with splitting the ques is that youd have two ques, one with a premade team, and one with 5 individuals..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
08-26-2011, 03:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
The problem with splitting the ques is that youd have two ques, one with a premade team, and one with 5 individuals..
That's why I would ultimately favor some kind of match-making system.

"Hmm, I got 2 5 man team with 150 15:0 wins, and 8 players with 150 0:15 losses. Let's put the 2 5 man teams against each other, and the 8 single players in another match.

Having 18 players or so in the queue(s) at the same time is not that unrealistic...

And if it is, well, maybe we have to give up that teams always stay together. (Though I think the match-making should prefer doing so, and if it can't keep the team together, it can at least try to keep them in the same map for FvF and KvK. So people at least still get to "hang out" in PvP together.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
08-26-2011, 03:31 AM
Team stacking is the "i win button"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
08-26-2011, 03:45 AM
Somewhere, the same problem can be found in WoW's pvp.
Afterall, what can we expect if several princples are merely cloned.

I agree with the OP about GuildWars1. The system for instanced Battleground pvp was genuine.
For oPvP, **** is a decent example. Following that DF principle, we could have seen something like conquering regions and whoever has more than the other side can access the Gamma Quadrant through the DS9 Wormhole -- but that is suggestion soup.

Premades vs PUG is pretty much meh - but PUGs tend to be very VERY lazy on chatting. Even voice is working now. When you see a premade, you have to stand up and speak in that mic, because if you don't, you might as well could quit STO or that round at least (or just remove your shields from your ship so your hull can be blown faster \o/).
Unfortunately yes, if you want to take on premades, you have join/make one yourself. Pretty much fighting fire with fire, lame tricks vs lame tricks. There is a lot of fotm facemelting in the game, even more if you stumble upon a seasoned premade full of that stuff.

Cryptic can help here, but I've lost my hopes on something ever to happen.
And Opvp can be done, even in STO, but as usual, a large variety of people from the suggestion boards would have to be some employed borg entity of Cryptic to actually be heard xD.

Premade team vs Premade team
Pug vs Pug
etc
functionality would be sexy.

It also can't be that there are so few people signing up for pvp. Especially PUG vs PUG should be more rewarding for exping. There is nothing more mindbogging that repeating the same stupid exploration clustermissions over and over again - unless this is also part of the great business model cashcow ^^.

Just to get back to that oPvP topic. It doesn't have to be that widescale either.
There is so much content to mess with, I simply can't agree that there is nothing that can be done (still looking at you Cryptic ).
I mean, if people were smart enough to even add the DropKirk (aka Kirk's awesome Dropkick), c'mon.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
08-26-2011, 03:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Brethren
Team stacking is the "i win button"
Playing like youre Cpt. Kirk is the "I lose" button
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