Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
08-26-2011, 05:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barschmeister_Sparki
Somewhere, the same problem can be found in WoW's pvp.
Afterall, what can we expect if several princples are merely cloned.

I agree with the OP about GuildWars1. The system for instanced Battleground pvp was genuine.
For oPvP, **** is a decent example. Following that DF principle, we could have seen something like conquering regions and whoever has more than the other side can access the Gamma Quadrant through the DS9 Wormhole -- but that is suggestion soup.

Premades vs PUG is pretty much meh - but PUGs tend to be very VERY lazy on chatting. Even voice is working now. When you see a premade, you have to stand up and speak in that mic, because if you don't, you might as well could quit STO or that round at least (or just remove your shields from your ship so your hull can be blown faster \o/).
Unfortunately yes, if you want to take on premades, you have join/make one yourself. Pretty much fighting fire with fire, lame tricks vs lame tricks. There is a lot of fotm facemelting in the game, even more if you stumble upon a seasoned premade full of that stuff.

Cryptic can help here, but I've lost my hopes on something ever to happen.
And Opvp can be done, even in STO, but as usual, a large variety of people from the suggestion boards would have to be some employed borg entity of Cryptic to actually be heard xD.

Premade team vs Premade team
Pug vs Pug
etc
functionality would be sexy.

It also can't be that there are so few people signing up for pvp. Especially PUG vs PUG should be more rewarding for exping. There is nothing more mindbogging that repeating the same stupid exploration clustermissions over and over again - unless this is also part of the great business model cashcow ^^.

Just to get back to that oPvP topic. It doesn't have to be that widescale either.
There is so much content to mess with, I simply can't agree that there is nothing that can be done (still looking at you Cryptic ).
I mean, if people were smart enough to even add the DropKirk (aka Kirk's awesome Dropkick), c'mon.
Agree that pugs are lazy to talk or write, but sometimes there is no point even to communicate when the premade doing healfest as most of em doing now. Blame me when i left a match after 44 minutes, and the score was 3:1. I even know ppl who warping out from match if they see healfest team (like ones with lot heals and mighty 3 x extended shield). I dont blame em. Seperate que is not that bad idea imo.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
08-26-2011, 05:47 AM
The vivox and auto team I believe were slightly aimed at helping this issue, yet the fail on that was laughable.

I still feel the answer is more players. New players need to understand most of us will guide you through how to build a ship, pilot it effectively, and put it into some kinda gameplan.

Of course I have no plan that will fix the extend3 psw premade, or the WTF that's a lotta BOPs and mines premade. But you can put up a fight.

There is no fix I can think of. Other than to encourage players to unite, and go in. Your gonna get stomped everyonce in a while. And if pve wasn't so darn easy in this game new pvp'ers wouldn't high tail it out so often.

Encourage pvp. It's teamwork. it's strategy. It's starships. And I know it's a little broken, but.... It's still a beam overload and high yeild in your face. Pew pew for the good of STO. Pew pew for the sake of teamwork and friendship. Pew pew to blow up bad guys.

No more fighting mindless drones and tac cubes.

Encourage pvp.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
08-26-2011, 07:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
Playing like youre Cpt. Kirk is the "I lose" button
Im sure captain kirk always won lol

Yes i do love team play shame about some other ppl that play the game,,,
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
08-26-2011, 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Brethren
Im sure captain kirk always won lol

Yes i do love team play shame about some other ppl that play the game,,,
Yes, thinking your some Cpt Kirk (who did everything solo) will get you killed :p

Your first post suggested that you disliked teams, obviously a premade will always have an huge advantage going against a PUG. First and formost because they, by nature, will be far better coordinated, but also because they tend to be above average skilllevel.

While splitting the ques might seem like a good idea, there are some flaws with the suggestion:

1: The population doesnt support a split at this time, if we consistently had 100+ players PvPing, it would work, at the moment, it wont.

2: Many many of the PUG players are simply lesser skilled than a PvP player from a highprofiled PvP fleet.. During my latest grind to LG I did some PvP at both Commander, Captain and BG levels. I consistently outdamaged the other 5-7 players - combined..

Point being that 1 good player in the PUG que will "ruin" the game for the others in the match, which I had comments about in every match I played..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
08-26-2011, 08:00 AM
Assuming the Premade player has a ship that's also pug capable (Ie not tuned to fly exclusively with his/her team mates) it will pretty much always put an 'unfair' advantage to whatever team he/she is on unless the other pug has at least one player of equal caliber.

The problem is nestled in PVE being a farce. Even the 'mighty' borg are a push over. Anything less than the borg, is simply an excursion in rolling your face across the keyboard and watching the npc die, even on higher difficulties. This encourages, horrible builds (not bad, not even terrible. But absolutely Horrible) and lazy piloting.

And this, in a nutshell is the single biggest contributing factor for why PvP is so small.
Last nights matches for me was a perfect example, it took me longer to kill the pveer's Fleet Support cruisers, than it took me to kill them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
08-26-2011, 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
Yes, thinking your some Cpt Kirk (who did everything solo) will get you killed :p

Your first post suggested that you disliked teams, obviously a premade will always have an huge advantage going against a PUG. First and formost because they, by nature, will be far better coordinated, but also because they tend to be above average skilllevel.

While splitting the ques might seem like a good idea, there are some flaws with the suggestion:

1: The population doesnt support a split at this time, if we consistently had 100+ players PvPing, it would work, at the moment, it wont.

2: Many many of the PUG players are simply lesser skilled than a PvP player from a highprofiled PvP fleet.. During my latest grind to LG I did some PvP at both Commander, Captain and BG levels. I consistently outdamaged the other 5-7 players - combined..

Point being that 1 good player in the PUG que will "ruin" the game for the others in the match, which I had comments about in every match I played..
I totaly get what you are saying ,, bottom line for me is i need a team. , guess it shall be the way forward, like i said i love playing in a team that has members from the same fleet or team it makes my game more fun , but it is very anoying when your are on the otherside , but i play on anyway ,
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
08-26-2011, 09:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Brethren
I totaly get what you are saying ,, bottom line for me is i need a team. , guess it shall be the way forward, like i said i love playing in a team that has members from the same fleet or team it makes my game more fun , but it is very anoying when your are on the otherside , but i play on anyway ,
Throw me a tell later today, some 3-4 hours from now.. And we can pew a bit together.. LF is always looking for people that like PvP, but on a more casual level than most other fleets.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
08-26-2011, 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo716 View Post
So again... someone thinks that people who play together for fun as well (hop on tsi vent sometime too see all the "cordination" we do while just flying around as a group) should be punished because they're good at something they do?

-sad panda-
I never said you needed to be punished. If anything what I'm suggesting would probably improve your game experience as well. I can't see how it could be fun to go up against a team that you can beat with little to no effort. Were is the fun in that? If it was broken into random arenas and team arenas you and your buddies could get a team together and jump into the team arenas and challenge yourself and have some fun. I mean if all you want to do is blow ships up with no real challenge you can PvE.

In the end I dont view my suggestion as "punishing" those who like to get a team of friends together and jump into some PvP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
08-26-2011, 02:07 PM
I know ill get flak for saying this, but we honestly do need a Casual and Premade Queue system.


Yes, we've heard the arguments before about teamwork > all and experience yadda yadda. The thing is given it's nearly a year since PvP went more into a teamwork format, PuGs still are PuGs and the only time a PuG is going to win against a premade is if that premade is made up of inexperienced players.

I'm sure some of you might know this, or heard of it, but there is an underground PvP movement in STO, where PvErs are doing their PvP dailies in Private Queues as to avoid the Premades. So basically the setup is already there.

If Cryptic implements a Casual queue where Premade Teams are not possible and people in the same fleet getting divided up between the two teams. And then a Experienced Queue where Premades can happen, there surely will be an increase in participation.



Though with TOR on the horizon, that might very well change.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
08-26-2011, 02:25 PM
I like PuGing. I like randomly teaming up with any number of people who I am not fleeted up with but who I know will play as a team. Most times it only takes a little bit of coordination, or the experience to know that you can fall back to someone, if you need a hand. The PvP community is too small to not learn something about one another and the only real difference will be whether or not they were in a team together before they queued.

How do you force a split? Do you make sure that anyone in a fleet is automatically put on opposing sides? How do you force them to fight each other (people even throw matches now)? What about people who team up regularly but aren't in the same fleet?

TheYak and I have been accused of griefing because we'd been put into enough matches together that we must have completed our dailies (so why else would two people in a faction end up in more than 3 skirmishes against another faction). Just yesterday, because /zone chat overlaps now for some reason, one guy accused the other side of using premade tactics while the other side claimed to be a PuG.

The biggest problem is that people can't get over themselves. They don't like to lose and they'll grasp at whatever excuse they can find.
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