Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
08-29-2011, 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagles View Post
-Ridiculous damage increase that is simply not comparable to anything else in the game, even the high end tactical abilities such as rapid fire, and especially at the ensign level.
-Cruisers retain all survivability abilities with the only drawback being forced to run full weapon power + take an EPS or two (in which case switching power is not an issue).
-FAW takes zero skill to use. It is a major damage ability + photonic/pet clearer, + immediately hits decloaking ships with no shields + you can focus on healing teammates while letting it do its own thing.

Additional effects of allowing it includes:

-Even more scramble sensor spam, its only counter, which is already an issue as is
-Even more cruisers/"big" ships instead of escorts, as a couple of cruisers running FAW can make up the damage easily (and Id argue cause even more disruption in enemy healing as now everyone is getting hit). Healing is enough of a problem as is - but the current drawback is too many big ships = no offensive pressure on opponents = eventually losing. FAW takes this disadvantage away.
-Game becomes less about piloting and skill, and more about random beams flying around.

So in the end, no, it is not good for the game. It would not be fun to play against and it would not be fun to play either.
I am not convinced by your argumentation. Please can everyone use BFAW again so we can actually see in practice if it's okay now or not? At least in FvF (as long as the cloak/scramble or whatever it actually is issue is resolved)?

My counter-arguments would be:
1) There are actually powers that grant similar or higher damage buffs. High Yield Torpedo and Beam Overload come to mind. Sure, they affect only one shot, but that shot is boosted several times more than other powers do so. That it is a single shot is what balances it. The same might apply for BFAW and its reduced duration. If you really want to take into account the damage per target, Cannon Scatter Volley is the counter example. Similar uptimes. Sure, cannons may have a lower firing arc (and that power), but they also deal more base damage, and you hit 3 instead o 2 targets.

2) Cruisers might not lose any survivability, but why is that a problem? An Escort doesn't lose its burst potential for equipping Emergency Power to Shields or Hazard Emitters either.
And the Cruiser is still operating from a lower damage capability than an Escort.

3) BFAW reduced duration actually makes the choice when to use it important for its spam clearance purposes. Heck, even the cloak-related issues requires more skill now to abuse, as you at least not have some idea that cloaked enemies are around. Before, the short gap between two uses was barely noticeable ,now it is.


I suspect - aside from the cloak issue - it's fine now. Test it in FvF, if necessary.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
08-29-2011, 12:40 PM
Sorry Red, I see nothing wrong with the current FaW. (Who'd a thunk it, huh?)

FaW while, as you state, was taken from 75% on to 50% on, just that was a 1/3 NERF in the total that FaW used to be. Quite a single NERF there wouldn't you say, but it didn't stop at that point. The ACC of beams seem to have been CHANGED also to make "new, newer, newest" FaW comply with misses that some of the community wanted which affect way more than just FaW ny itself. They tired to offset the damages of beams to compensate and with that it seems to be at least not a total loss. The power consumptions have also increased as the current version takes a bunch more work to keep power levels up during even FaW 1, by itself.

I haven't personaly seen any FaW pre-mades since the NERF. I haven't seen any1 complain in matches about FaW (other than some1 accused me of running FaW 3 when all I run is FaW 1)

I will again state the opinions of others here in this thread. "New, newer, newest" FaW seems to be not a concern and there are more pressing matters for Cryptic development to tackle.

The cloak issue needs to be addressed, tho. That seems to be a bug and I believe they have talked about it and something is on the way to "fix" that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
08-29-2011, 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagles View Post
Here are the reasons why it is OP:

-Ridiculous damage increase that is simply not comparable to anything else in the game, even the high end tactical abilities such as rapid fire, and especially at the ensign level.
-Cruisers retain all survivability abilities with the only drawback being forced to run full weapon power + take an EPS or two (in which case switching power is not an issue).
-FAW takes zero skill to use. It is a major damage ability + photonic/pet clearer, + immediately hits decloaking ships with no shields + you can focus on healing teammates while letting it do its own thing.

Additional effects of allowing it includes:

-Even more scramble sensor spam, its only counter, which is already an issue as is
-Even more cruisers/"big" ships instead of escorts, as a couple of cruisers running FAW can make up the damage easily (and Id argue cause even more disruption in enemy healing as now everyone is getting hit). Healing is enough of a problem as is - but the current drawback is too many big ships = no offensive pressure on opponents = eventually losing. FAW takes this disadvantage away.
-Game becomes less about piloting and skill, and more about random beams flying around.
I find these arguments to be flawed and here's why:
- You just compared Rapid Fire, a single target damage boost, to an AoE attack. This again goes back to overall damage vs focused damage. You are basing the overall damage of FaW against the focused damage of CRF. It's like comparing apple and oranges.

- This isn't true, a Fire At Will consumes a tactical slot that could be used for Tactical Team or Attack Pattern Delta which improves survivability. Throwing on EPS consoles consume engineering mod slots that could go to armor, shield boosting, aux power boost, engine boost, etc.

- I concede on the instant target of decloaking ships which I have suggested in the past to add a small random delay before a decloaking ship becomes a viable target. But playing devil's advocate, a cloaked vessel should not be decloaking near an enemy ship USING FaW. Also, define skill for me here. This isn't a FPS and there are plenty of abilities that require little to no aim not to mention automated things like the defense turret. What about Beam Overload? It will do more damage than FaW generally and requires no aiming if you have one forward and one aft beam array. Also, wouldn't dropping a gravity well or activating tractor beam repulsars allow you to focus on healing for a short period of time?

- Scramble sensors is indeed a bit of a problem right now, but it is still an in-game counter. Yet you also seem to be suggesting counters are not enough. What more is there? A flat out block to FaW like Metaphasic Shields? If that's your argument, than shouldn't we look at SNB while we are at it?

- As pointed out previously in several posts, FaW is not the only ability that compounds the more people spam it. But with FaW, a five man team is not going to be able to use it now as an "I Win" button. Damage is too distributed and is in fact random unless all players have the same target (which is than focus fire) to cause serious damage to individual ships. Escorts can easily continue to maneuver around keeping their strongest shield facing ups during a FaW spam cycle; science and cruisers can buff their shields or deploy tactical team to mitigate the damage. Also, deploying targetable items such as mines REDUCES the overall damage of FaW because that's one beam shot that could have hit you but went after the mine.

- Here's that skill again. I suppose you could be talking about strategy which there is some strategy involved in FaW. Just pushing the button is relatively inefficient. You need to consider the timing when you deploy since it is possible to deploy in a way that you get only ONE cycle instead of TWO cycles with your FaW. Also consider the fact that if you go with "Just shoot" strategy, a counter strategy of dropping hoards of tricobalts or other heavy projectiles during the window of downtime becomes rather viable.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
08-29-2011, 01:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagles View Post
This insult might actually mean something to me if you and/or your team had ever proven yourself at any point in time in game. But you havent.
Your elitism is showing. I don't have to justify or prove anything about myself to you. I have done over 5000 matches ( I know that because I never spend those tokens you get for rewards and that is based on an average of 30 ) and just because I don't run in your circles does not mean I don't know what I am talking about. Sorry but your arguments listed in this post were just empty as can be.

If you still think FAW is OP (aside from the cloak shot issue), then there is nothing that will satisfy you for this power, until it is worthless again.

Franky it is nice to see the educated and informed players of this community stepping up to the plate to show you how broken your statements are. There are far worse powers than FAW. You need to put it aside, because frankly if you think FAW is an issue at this point....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
08-29-2011, 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaruslothran View Post
You need to put it aside, because frankly if you think FAW is an issue at this point....
Its only not an issue because no one uses it any more.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
08-29-2011, 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FurQue
Its only not an issue because no one uses it any more.
So you guys are complaining about a power that is so OP that nobody uses it any more?

Is that what you are saying?

Really???
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 47
08-29-2011, 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaruslothran View Post
So you guys are complaining about a power that is so OP that nobody uses it any more?

Is that what you are saying?

Really???
Because we cant use it, no one feels like they can use, becuase its so OP, which means we cant use mines.

Its not rocket science
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 48
08-29-2011, 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaruslothran View Post
Your elitism is showing. I don't have to justify or prove anything about myself to you. I have done over 5000 matches ( I know that because I never spend those tokens you get for rewards and that is based on an average of 30 ) and just because I don't run in your circles does not mean I don't know what I am talking about. Sorry but your arguments listed in this post were just empty as can be.

If you still think FAW is OP (aside from the cloak shot issue), then there is nothing that will satisfy you for this power, until it is worthless again.

Franky it is nice to see the educated and informed players of this community stepping up to the plate to show you how broken your statements are. There are far worse powers than FAW. You need to put it aside, because frankly if you think FAW is an issue at this point....
These people are educated and informed players...because they agree with you? Their arguments are silly - FAW is equal to Torp HY which can only be shot once, hit one target, and has to be done when the shields are down? CSV which has an arc and is a higher level tactical power, plus can only be placed on escorts, really? Comparing FAW on cruisers to a crappy low aux Hazards on an escort (who suffers all the drawbacks with less shields/hull)? These are intelligent arguments?

No.

Seriously, I havent even replied because this topic will never end if I do. It will just be like the SS thread.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 49
08-29-2011, 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FurQue
Because we cant use it, no one feels like they can use, becuase its so OP, which means we cant use mines.

Its not rocket science
This is the best comment string I have read in years.

funny stuff

Next we will hear how everybody uses SNB because it is underpowered.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 50
08-29-2011, 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaruslothran View Post
This is the best commend I have read in years.

And the "DERP" award goes to....

Lol. Are you serious? TSI, Qew, RE and at least for the most part SOB, who are no doubt the best four teams in the game, dont use FAW because it is overpowered and we have all agreed it is best not to use it.

Meanwhile a bunch of people Ive never seen before and a 7th core player start arguing for FAW and stating it is fair = lol for me.

edit: oh by the way, nice edit. rage much?
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