Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 81
08-30-2011, 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esquire View Post
Red, just your name would lead me to believe that you already know almost, at least, 90% of what I do with NERFs. (And yes, I use the capitols just to emphasize the point) Remember the NERF WARS, back in SWG before NGE? Remember the start of it while CURB was being talked about? Remember devs coming to the forums asking if it was even worth fixing? Remember CURB turning into CU and the resultant complete deleation of the mind bar? Remember, how in CU, that the NERF WARS got soooooo bad that SOE Austin even stopped talking to us? Why? (see next question) Then, remember NGE and the community people of SOE telling us "it was to fix all of our "listed" problems" by taking away all diversity, making EVERY power in the game open to players completly vanilla, and telling us it was for our own good???????? After all, we all griped about it enough. And after Nov 15th, 2005, LA went directly to Bioware, in Dec. 2005, didn't pass go and didn't collect 200.00, and started talks for TOR. You want CBS to do the same?

Then and now, remember what this all did for that game. Do you REALLY want to see all of that, again, over here?

I said 90% as I came back to the NGE, after quite a long break due to not finding anything to replace SWG as a whole. Most did not, so I've got the years since Nov 15th, 2005 also which culminated in yet another form of CU with C6CD and then yet again with GU-Whatever. Take a good look at my signature, you actualy want that for STO all in the name of PVP balance?

You already know the outcome of these things. I'm sure you've been there just as much as I have. You have came up with some great aids, guides, questions to Cryptic Development, and help for the PVP community. But, please, do not try to start that process all over again, here. STO, Cryptic, and players just do not need it.

Last time I checked the culmination thread, here, there were 41 different items on it, 41!!!!!! Even some1 who never played SWG has to know that would constitute "NERF Wars" all over again.

Sorry, but there are many very good players, who PVP even, who do not come to the forums, who do not complain, and who do not get involved in the "I pwned jooooo" situation that PVP can bring up and make so evident. You do not have to be in a complete PVP guild or fleet to be a "good" player. I've met several. Their opinions matter just as much as yours or mine. They have their 15 bucks a month invested also, and JUST that fact makes them have the same importance.
I remember NGE all too well, it was the reason I canceled my subscription there the first time... I would periodically go back, just to see if things had turned around, but was sadly disappointed...

The difference between there and here is that SWG did have a 'mostly' balanced system, the complaints in the forums there were mostly for minor tweaks and additions to an existing, healthy system... Rather than move in small increments, however, SOE decided that rather than listen to the heart of the matter (which was that players were, in fact, generally happy with what they had, but thought that it could be better), they simply looked at the 'volume' of feedback and criticism, and someone in their infinite wisdom decided, "Well, if there's this much criticism, we must be doinitwrong... Thus, we are going back to the drawing board, and starting from scratch!"...

STO, on the other hand, has never really had that sweet spot, which, to be fair, since the game was developed to cater to an entirely different subset of the 'traditional' MMO players (in fact, much of the game is marketed at non-MMO players), appropriate balance was neglected, from a PvP perspective, from the beginning. There have been steps forward, but there have been just as many steps back; whether it has been newly-introduced items, abilities, or ships (remember the -Refit proposals with dual Commander BOffs?), or tweaks to existing items, abilities, or ships, there has rarely been any forward development for the PvP side of the game.

Are some of the old "iWin" combos gone (VM/SNB, PSW chain-stunning, etc.)? Sure... Replaced by New FAW3.0, Cloaking Tractor Mines, Scorpion Fighters (a symptom of the spam disease), etc.... The treadmill that PvP is on, grew stagnant after the Season 2 revival (the Golden Age of STO PvP)... Since then, it seems the never-ending quest for balance has become utterly quixotic in nature, and even changes like FAW4.0 just seem to put another pellet in front of the hamster...

Do I want to see an NGE debacle here? Of course not... But we would have to be at a point where things are mostly balanced and functional first, and things, sadly, still seem far from that...

In any case, I reiterate to the topic at hand, if the Community believes that FAW4.0 is now fine, I am more than happy to abide by that consensus (and, frankly, there are so many other issues that are more pressing and are doing more to harm the long-term health and viability of the game, perhaps it is simply easier to call the matter resolved...)

-BRJ
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 82
08-30-2011, 01:24 PM
Im really happy with most of the game to be sure, otherwise I would not be playing this anymore I find lots of things annoying especialy endless healing cycles and I dont really like snb much myself I think its abit cheesy when its used atleast in one vs one, but In general sure there is lots they can do let players rearrange buffs to what is most important to them, different tweeks to many different abilitys that we have suggested seems alright, I want a general nerf to healing skills. Let players customize the ui """"just the looks"""". Fire at will is too easy to use frankly anyone who got a beam cruiser can use it everytime there is no drawback.

Click and do more dmg to everyone at one exactly what you want when your about sustained damage who dont kill that much anyhow. I hate the "all Cruiser team" 3 cruisers and two science ships, that tsi played and perfected after we lost to 7th core back in june 2010, simple strategy outheal your opponnents and outspam them burst dps with the science in combo with two specific dps cruiser builds.

I've used faw before and I thought it was too good when I ran dbbx4escort after awhile.

Anyhow I think what faw should do its to improve dmg surely why not make it +20% same uptime as now 10/30 15 reuse .... so its 10 --15--10 --15.. but decrease accuracy to 75%, to make targets that move fast become a problem, then mines, objects and players who are not moving recive the huge damage but you become less good at doing sustained damage because of greater miss rate.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 83
08-30-2011, 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedJedi
I remember NGE all too well, it was the reason I canceled my subscription there the first time... I would periodically go back, just to see if things had turned around, but was sadly disappointed...

The difference between there and here is that SWG did have a 'mostly' balanced system, the complaints in the forums there were mostly for minor tweaks and additions to an existing, healthy system... Rather than move in small increments, however, SOE decided that rather than listen to the heart of the matter (which was that players were, in fact, generally happy with what they had, but thought that it could be better), they simply looked at the 'volume' of feedback and criticism, and someone in their infinite wisdom decided, "Well, if there's this much criticism, we must be doinitwrong... Thus, we are going back to the drawing board, and starting from scratch!"...

STO, on the other hand, has never really had that sweet spot, which, to be fair, since the game was developed to cater to an entirely different subset of the 'traditional' MMO players (in fact, much of the game is marketed at non-MMO players), appropriate balance was neglected, from a PvP perspective, from the beginning. There have been steps forward, but there have been just as many steps back; whether it has been newly-introduced items, abilities, or ships (remember the -Refit proposals with dual Commander BOffs?), or tweaks to existing items, abilities, or ships, there has rarely been any forward development for the PvP side of the game.

Are some of the old "iWin" combos gone (VM/SNB, PSW chain-stunning, etc.)? Sure... Replaced by New FAW3.0, Cloaking Tractor Mines, Scorpion Fighters (a symptom of the spam disease), etc.... The treadmill that PvP is on, grew stagnant after the Season 2 revival (the Golden Age of STO PvP)... Since then, it seems the never-ending quest for balance has become utterly quixotic in nature, and even changes like FAW4.0 just seem to put another pellet in front of the hamster...

Do I want to see an NGE debacle here? Of course not... But we would have to be at a point where things are mostly balanced and functional first, and things, sadly, still seem far from that...

In any case, I reiterate to the topic at hand, if the Community believes that FAW4.0 is now fine, I am more than happy to abide by that consensus (and, frankly, there are so many other issues that are more pressing and are doing more to harm the long-term health and viability of the game, perhaps it is simply easier to call the matter resolved...)

-BRJ
I differ a bit with your conclusion that we're far off from "balance" altho I find your statments to be right on track (as usual). For me, personaly, balance seems pretty decent at this point. However, in any game, devs must continue to add things (tier 6 ships and more skillpoints) for instance, that will cause some problems as we go along. If they don't add these things, the game can get stale and players see nothing to progress in. (SWG, post NGE)

Some "tweaks" here and there may be warrented. Maybe a second or 2 more cooldown or less on some powers. But, from what testing I'm able to do, 1 v 1 seems to be quite balanced atm. It is when you get a 5 man team spamming just about any power in the game that causes problems. FaW is not the only 1 of these cases, just one of the more voiced ones The counter for this has been profession "balanced" teams with a couple of escorts, maybe a couple of crusiers, and or a couple of Sci. so your alittle more ready for any situation that some1 or some team basicly trys to exploit for their advantage.

I somewhat agree that Cryptic seems to go off of the "cool" factor a bit in development. "Looks "cool", our playerbase will like it" without fleshing out what will happen to the PVP part of the community. But, in their defense, I have yet to see a dev for any company, not go on this type of deal at 1 time or another. The double ck for this is tribble, and the resultant feedback which I would agree they need to pay a little more attention to at times. FaW 3 would be an IE; of exactly that.

Let me take this opportunity to thank you for all these guides you've been doing. I use them, myself, in builds now and have sent many a player over to them as well.

Lets try to give Cryptic a bit of a break here, now and then, not a pass by any means, but a bit of a break to see how something turns out in totalilty before we start the NERF calls, is pretty much all I'm asking. I've (and you have as well) seen NERFs on steroids and it wasn't pretty and basicly killed a once really fun to play game. I very much do not want to see a repeat over here.
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