Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 121
09-14-2011, 10:37 AM
I have the same frustrations but then i remember that this is just the Holodeck. It's like a Holo-Novel. You are the star of the show and everything revolves around you. Sometimes parts of the story are ridiculous, implausible, and riddled with bad dialog. Eventually at the end of the game we'll tell the computer to "End program" and we'll be back to our real lives ala "Enterprise" finale.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 122
09-14-2011, 10:37 AM
The fact of the matter is, Admirals don't have any business being in command of a starship - certainly not on a permanent basis. An Admiral may in exceptional circumstances take command of a ship with the consent of Starfleet Command. In most naval organizations an Admiral would be a guest aboard a Captain's ship - the Captain could actually order the Admiral off their command deck if he got too uppity. Admirals may be in command of a task force or fleet, but the ship that they are embarked upon would have its own Captain.

This is sensible - an Admiral's task is to manage and command his formation, which might be 5 ships or 50. How can he concentrate on that if he also has responsibility for commanding his own starship?

Then there are the Admirals we mostly see in Star Trek. Staff officers who mostly stay at Command or in a Starbase, the people who hand out assignments to the Captains who are tasked with actually going out there and doing it. Strategists, people whose responsibilities might cover an entire sector, a war front or a specific type of operations.

That's not to mention the fact that as a Vice Admiral, my next highest ranking subordinate is a Commander. Don't you think I'm a little senior for my current command? When will Starfleet Personnel realize that there's a rogue VAdm out there pulling a Kirk and seizing command of starships because he really wants to be a Captain? There must be a TON of messages waiting for me in my office in Starfleet Command...

Hell, my first officer got promoted to Captain months ago, and I haven't told her yet. She still thinks I'm a Captain!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 123
09-14-2011, 12:58 PM
My two cents; we are still missing the rank of Lieutenant Junior Grade and both Rear Admiral Lower and Upper Halfs are only 5 "levels" , that's 20 "levels" missing. They also can bring Commodore in above Captian (another 10 "levels").
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 124
09-14-2011, 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Webster
Don't you think I'm a little senior for my current command? When will Starfleet Personnel realize that there's a rogue VAdm out there pulling a Kirk and seizing command of starships because he really wants to be a Captain? There must be a TON of messages waiting for me in my office in Starfleet Command...

Hell, my first officer got promoted to Captain months ago, and I haven't told her yet. She still thinks I'm a Captain!
This got a hearty laugh out of me. Well said, sir!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 125
09-14-2011, 11:43 PM
Its really too bad all of this is falling on deaf ears. The game would make much more sense rank-capped (not level capped but rank capped) at Captain.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 126
09-15-2011, 11:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermbot View Post
*scratches head* Trying to figure out what you're asking for here son. You want an end game ship, that's fine, I would assume you want all of the skill points you'd be entitled to at max level, but you want to be "Captain" in more than just name?

What mechanics would separate your "Captain" from the host of "Vice Admirals" we have running around?
sounds to me he is letting rank go thru his head... i say we demote him all right. down to commander, strip him of his ship, and he can serve as my XO. that way he wont be able to let his rank get to him cause i'd be way over him.

pretty sure Star Fleet has more than 1 fleet admiral seeing as a battlegroup always has a fleet admiral. either being, rank is rank, they just need to set things up to fit level selection. and they have choosen ranks in the navy. but this guy just doesnt seem to understand how RPG's and MMO's work. and explaining to him how this works is like explaining to a 2 month old infant why it's bad to eat yellow and brown snow, or poo.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 127
09-16-2011, 01:03 AM
This thing was argued for until the first people were blue in the face. Then the second group, and now the third or so.

Ranks should not have been a factor, with the possible exception of Cmdr. It would've made more sense for a Cmdr to assume command of the ship in the tutorial, get their promotion to Capt for their bravery and leadership, cough... cough, Picard... and then been Captain through the end and the only thing you do is increase your level to 50-whatever.

At this rate there are two ranks left in Starfleet:
Admiral
Fleet Admiral

Fleet Admiral is the last rank and typically the pool of officers that the Commander in Chief is from, this is who reports directly to the President of the UFP. I'm sure that it is similar on the KDF side. So Cryptic painted themselves in a box already.

If Admiral meant you had a small pet-fleet to command, it would be vastly different, and a vastly different game. Point is, not sure you will every be "demoted" now that we have the rank.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 128
09-16-2011, 07:56 AM
Okay, so Cryptic decided at the beginning to link level and rank. Actually I like the idea of being promoted as you go along - it gives a feeling of progression. What I don't understand is why rank and level needed to be linked so closely in the first place, but anyway.

I think it would have been better for the game if Admiral ranks were never introduced - The Captain's Chair, that's what all the best Starfleet officers aspire to. When did you last hear a junior officer say that one day s/he hoped to be an Admiral? I can't think of a single instance, but how many officers aspired to a command of their own? An independent command! The awesome responsibility and authority of being undisputed master of your own starship. To be "The Captain", that is the dream of every Starfleet officer!

So, offer us the choice that every successful Captain has to make. Picard made the right decision, Kirk and Janeway didn't. Sisko never made this choice because he... left.

When we get to Captain 11 and spend all our skill points, let Starfleet offer us promotion. You may say "This sounds like a lot of work just so you don't have to look at "Vice Admiral" in every dialog when you think you should be a Captain". You are correct, so let's make it meaningful.

Let those who chose to continue to accumulate seniority as a Captain receive a buff or ability that improves their own, solo performance. Let them concern themselves with their own ships, work at getting the absolute best from their systems and crews.

Then there are those who accept promotion - let them receive the fleet buffs, the abilities that improve the performance of everyone in a 5-man group, fleet action or STF. They will be concerned with their 'task force' of player ships, giving everyone a boost at the cost of losing one or two abilities that improve their independent performance.

"Captain Webster!" I hear you admonish. "This is a terrible idea! Who is going to take a fleet buff instead of a personal buff?!"

That's a good question! Thanks. I'd say that the team players, those who spend a lot of time PvPing or in STFs or other group content. And if the buff doesn't stack, only 1-in-5 people need to be an Admiral anyway.

Think of it! One admiral and four captains. You can choose whether you want to be an Admiral or Captain from a cosmetic perspective and no-one can really blame you but there's also an interesting, small but certainly measurable gameplay difference. A choice.

I've said it before: RPGs are all about choices. Sticking MMO in front of it doesn't change that! This is a change I'd love to see, long term.

(Sorry for Great Length)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 129
10-02-2011, 03:22 AM
I always thought that you should start out as Lieutenant for the tutorial. It seems far more reasonable for a Lieutenant to take command of a ship than a Ensign. At the end of the tutorial you get promoted to Lieutenant Commander, then the progression would go:

End of Tutorial - 20 : Lieutenant Commander
21 - 40 : Commander
41+ : Captain

You could still have ships awarded at every ten levels. It doesn't seem unreasonable in a time of war that a Lieutenant Commander would be allowed command of one of the older ships to bolster the fleet. You would spend most of the game as a Commander / Captain and considering the game is all about being in command of a ship that seems logical. It would also slow down the time between ranks, so you wouldn't be flying up through the ranks quite as fast as you do at the moment. Admiral I would leave as a title for those in command of fleets.

It seems a better option to me than the current one where you start in command way too low and finish way too high in rank. Then again I'm sure there are flaws which people are about to point out
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 130
10-02-2011, 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuatela
Or better yet, let's scrap the tier system altogether. Name one time that you hear someone in Trek say something about upgrading to a new tier of ship. Nope... because in Trek (and in real life), you have ship classes, and each of them is unique.


But how do we have progression? Simple... upgrades. You'd still have to get better gear for your ship, and maybe as you level, you can apply skill points to increase the number of weapon/console slots. Plenty of options that doesn't involve a tier system.



As to rank, I've been pushing for a couple options for months now. One is what's listed above (title of Captain, separate from level). The other is similar to what we have now, but rank is capped at Captain, at which point level separates.

So we'd have something like this:

Ensign: Tutorial
Lieutenant, 2-10
Lieutenant: 11-20
Lieutenant Commander: 21-30
Commander: 31-40
Captain: 41 - ???


A couple things would be different though:

1. For Ensign, Lt JG, and Lt, you would not be the "captain" of your ship. You would play normally, but all mission dialogues would have an NPC labeled as Captain telling you what to do. In addition, players would be limited to the current "tier 1" ships (Miranda, NX, Constitution)
2. Once a player reaches Lieutenant Commander, they can choose from the following ships: Nova, Defiant, , Saber. This is due to their small size. Initially, these ships would be lacking in ability, but could be upgraded later if desired.
3. Once a player has reached Commander, they can choose from the following ships: Steamrunner, Akira (now setup like a cruiser), Nebula, Galaxy, Intrepid. These ships are better equipped, but suffer from aging equipment. Like the previous group, they can be upgraded.
4. Once a player has reached Captain, they can choose any available ship (with a couple exceptions), or upgrade any previous ship using acquired "Upgrade Points"
5. Current "C-store" ships would remain such, with upgrades being harder to attain. Examples include the Dreadnought, MVAM, D'kyr.
Best idea in a thread of good ideas. The way it should have been.
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