Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
09-01-2011, 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naevius
I can out-spend any 12 year old.
Maple Story would like to have a word with you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
09-01-2011, 07:19 PM
Hmm... The Idea of restricting ship type makes sense..

Tac = Escort
Sci = Sci ship
Engi = Cruiser

KDF:
Tac = Raptor
Engi = Battle Cruiser
Sci = ?

I'd guess BoP for Sci. But BoP is so customizable that they should make it carrier. How ever there are no carriers from Lt 1 to Cap 10.. So for now it would have to be BoP..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
09-01-2011, 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PetRaccoon
Cause the "12 year olds" that come in who "pay to win" with x.5 ships bring in more money than we do PvPing with either lifetime or just subbing and not buying anything from the C-Store. Meanwhile we can still have a field day against those less experienced players.

(Not saying I'm "experienced" by any means.. But in comparison to the 12 year olds...)
I was a much better "twitchy" gamer at 12 than I am now. Heck I was a much better "twitchy" gamer at under ten. The days of flipping Defender on Atari et al ...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
09-02-2011, 01:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Champions Online went F2P at the start of this year.

I am not a CO expert, and I haven't PvP there at all yet. But this I know:

C-Store Buffs
1) There are several items in the C-Store that buff your character, or even change it. Heals, Power Recharges, Devices that turn your character into a different creature with different power sets.
2) These items do not work in PvP.

As the noob player of one of the more squishier archetypes, I must admit that I needed quite a few of these heals already.

Silver vs Gold
Champions Online most interesting feature for many players were the abilty you could create characters there. You could combine abilities from different power sets and were not limited to a single, rigit class structure.

For the move to Free To Play, Cryptic introduced a new type of character, an "archetype" character. These lose almost all of this freedom, and instead provide a single thematic build.

It can be argued that the "Free-Form" characters can be more powerful than the archetype characters (if you know what you're doing).

For PvP, Cryptic seperated the PvP Ques so that archetype characters would only have to compete with other archetypes (though I think you can also go into free-form PvP with them, it is probably not recommended.)

Conclusions for CO
So in Champions Online, there is no Pay-To-Win concept at work. The only buff applicable for PvP is the Acclaim buff, that means you earn more rewards from PvP. Which is obviously not affecting the actual game balance.


What does that mean for Startrek Online?

I do not know for sure.

I have the feeling that they don't actually intend to create as strong restrictions as they did in CO. On the other hand, introductions like the Rhode Island give raise to speculation that they are indeed planning for a Pay-To-Win model - at least for the lower tiers. We will have to see what is happening here.
I could see a restriction locking your career choice and your ship choice (e.g. Tactical Officers have to fly Escorts, Engineers Cruisers and so on), but that would also break apart if we think about the KDF. (Wo gets to fly Carriers or BOPs? What do Science Officers fly?)

These are the plans as far as they have been announced:

Badges, Marks and Emblens will be rolled into one currency. THis change is already coming in September, if all goes to plan. This "time-based currency" (as dstahl put it) will be called Dilithium.

All existing in-game ships will be changed to be buyable via Dilithium, not Energy Credits, Marks or Emblems. (Note that Energy credits itself will still exist.).

Ships that are C-Store only will remain C-Store only. (Unclear what this means for ships that exist in both.)
But there will be a way to exchange Dilithium for C-Points. This exchange, according to dstahl's reply, will be based on some kind of auction process, not on some kind of NPC vendor or automatic exchange rate model.

Some might consider this as a way to invite more gold farmers, but it seems that others games using such approaches did not have this happen. Quite possible that the strong competititon with many players and the legality of such offers ruins profit margins. Especially if you consider that many gold farmers only sell you cold so they can steal your credit card details - if there is a "legal" way to buy it via Cryptic, that source of revenue dies to them.

What it means is that someone has to pay for the C-Store you want. Even if that's not you.

A relatively balanced but still optimistic outlook for me:
1) Tier 2.5 to Tier 4.5 will enter the C-Store and will remain available exclusively for C-Points. Nothing will be done to split the PvP Queues for this. If you want to PvP at this tier, you better earn some C-Points.
2) Tier 5 remains Tier 5, no Tier 5.5 or Tier 6 ships (unless there is a level cap increase eventually.
3) Any new heals and buffs added to the game will remain unavailable for use in PvP.

A more optimistic view would be that Tier x.5 5 die and the Rhode Island remains the odd man out, and a somewhat less optimsitic view could be that they will be segregated.

I do not expect that any players will be barred from entry for PvP. This would serve no real purpose (especially not if you want to sell the Rhode Island and the like.)
Actually P2W exists on silver accounts as well, not just between silver and gold accounts.
There are some archetypes that are C-Store only and they are not only better than other archetypes but they can even compete with good Free-Form characters.


Also CO is now 2 years old and they are getting a 3rd PvP map, the King of the Hill so at least we already have more PvP content than they do
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
09-02-2011, 02:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naevius
I can out-spend any 12 year old.
I think Rory John Gates would beg to differ :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
09-02-2011, 03:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
I guess now i understand why all tiers will receive special x.5 ship alternatives....it kinda starts to make sense common ships for free customers, alternatives for gold customers / in game currency farming...
Well to be honest, in a F2P game I have not AS MUCH issues with the tx.5 ships as in the current model. My issue here is more:
What about the ships I've already payed for? I wanna keep my D'kyr, my Defaint, my Prometheus, my GX, and I like doing PVP and wouldnt want to get those ships unplayable.
Also I LOVE my Souvereign.
My issue is less that we basicly need to pay, my issue is more that I fear I have to use ships I dont like instead of those I like and,... for major parts, have already payed for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PetRaccoon
Cause the "12 year olds" that come in who "pay to win" with x.5 ships bring in more money than we do PvPing with either lifetime or just subbing and not buying anything from the C-Store. Meanwhile we can still have a field day against those less experienced players.

(Not saying I'm "experienced" by any means.. But in comparison to the 12 year olds...)
Well about the payment: With the new currency system gold members (wich are subbers and lifetimers I believe) will be able to get C-Points ingame.
Also they get an amount C-points every month with the suscription/lifetime (at least its that way in CO).

Since you usually focus on one class in PVP there will not be THAT MUCH to Pay to win for for THAT ONE class, so I think it will possible to max its efficiency out without additional payment.
But may be I'm to optimistic here. They aleady announced repricing the C-Store ships, the question is just in what direction....

And then we will still be more experienced then those 12-year-olds.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
09-02-2011, 03:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindSaviour
Actually P2W exists on silver accounts as well, not just between silver and gold accounts.
There are some archetypes that are C-Store only and they are not only better than other archetypes but they can even compete with good Free-Form characters.
I kinda want to differ between stuff that is more or less "accidentally" more powerful and stuff that is designed to be more powerful.

I mean, the Star Cruiser was generally deemed more powerful/useful as the Assault Cruiser, simply because healer builds are a better use for Cruisers. Sure, the Excelsior made the situation worse, but ultimately, the balance issue existed before. That wasn't a "P2W" issue because, well, AC and SC are both only in-game.
Ultimately, the problem here is that the powers and roles are not perfectly balanced. That is not intentional, it's just a failure to achieve the ideal design.

But slapping on one extra power is making something more powerful by design.
I think if making something just better because a particularly combination of powers is simply better than another, that is not quite in the realm of P2W. But if stuff gets better by giving intentionally better powers or more powers to class (or archetype in AT), then it's definitely P2W and I object to that.

Quote:
Also CO is now 2 years old and they are getting a 3rd PvP map, the King of the Hill so at least we already have more PvP content than they do
True. But on the other hand, it means PvP for them just got a tremendous boost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstAngelus
Well about the payment: With the new currency system gold members (wich are subbers and lifetimers I believe) will be able to get C-Points ingame.
Also they get an amount C-points every month with the suscription/lifetime (at least its that way in CO).
Keep in mind that according to the last plans we are aware of, the ability to gain C-Points ingame is not just a simple trader or game function that converns Dilithium to C-Points. It is supposed to be some kind of Auction system.
That means
1) The ability gain ingame C-Points depends on how much Dilithium are valued compared to C-Points by the community.
2) To gain C-Points ingame, someone has to have paid for them. You can have someone else pay for it, but the money is spent. This is really only good for Cryptic. The current model actually allowed us to entirely circumvent the C-Store, you just needed to farm your Emblems and spend a ton of time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
09-02-2011, 04:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvs5191 View Post
And I guess we can give up hope of ever getting new maps and such. They didn't give us anything during the 19+ months we paid subs. Why would they give us anything when we've stopped paying them to give us nothing?
F2P is not the only change. The big hat at PWI also announced that STO will get opened up to the Asian market as well. Having played a couple Asian F2P games, (namely World of Kung Fu and very briefly Perfect World), Asians love to PvP. For what it is worth most the Asian games have open PvP once you get above a certain level. The chat could get more obnoxious but PvP should grow.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
09-02-2011, 04:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post


Keep in mind that according to the last plans we are aware of, the ability to gain C-Points ingame is not just a simple trader or game function that converns Dilithium to C-Points. It is supposed to be some kind of Auction system.
That means
1) The ability gain ingame C-Points depends on how much Dilithium are valued compared to C-Points by the community.
2) To gain C-Points ingame, someone has to have paid for them. You can have someone else pay for it, but the money is spent. This is really only good for Cryptic. The current model actually allowed us to entirely circumvent the C-Store, you just needed to farm your Emblems and spend a ton of time.
Remember that, even now, there are actually people who buy the 8-hour-XP-boosts just to put it for 1 (quickly earned other ways) million ec into the exchange.
I have no doubt that there always be enough people willing to pay for them and exchanging them for some ingame currency.
After all the question is if the individuals who are NOT willing to pay more "real money" then the suscription costs have other ways, and as long as THOSE people are there, they will.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
09-02-2011, 07:44 AM
Honestly, it's not like the skill of the average sto pug is going to drop. (seriously, most of them are worse than the Fleet Support Npcs!)

So this can only help, by attracting actual Gamers to STO as a side diversion from RIFT, WOW, and possibly maybe TOR.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:31 PM.