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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
09-02-2011, 07:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiiliitiila
Now I just have to put my two cents in, or sense in for that matter. Does anyone else have a problem with the GORN having the science ships? Does it make any sense for these large brutish and warlike reptiles to fly around science ships?

Gee no wonder they lost their war with the Klingons, apparently they only make science ships for their fleet!

Come on people there is a reason that the Klingon faction has no science ships, it's because the races making up the KDF have no interest in science! Especially not the Gorn!

Anyone else agree with me?

-Quiiliitiila
Consider this:

The Gorn in TOS managed to overload Spock's tricorder by feeding its own impulses back into it.
"Science" in this game does not equal "research", it equals electronic warfare.

Also how many Gorn did we see?
Two.
One was the captain of what appeared to be a warship, the other was not actually a Gorn from our own universe but from one where even the protagonists enjoy torturing and backstabbing each other.

You want to base your conclusions on that?
Also here's the usual question when someone comes up with the usual "they are brutes/warrios/criminals not scientists/engineers" BS:
If the entire species consisted entirely of people like the one or two examples we ever saw of them, they'd still be sitting in caves or on trees trying to figure out how to sharpen a stick.

Quit the racial stereotyping based on "evil=dumb" or "non-Federation=dumb" will ya?

BTW: why should the fact that the ships the Gorn get right now represent their entire navy?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
09-02-2011, 07:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiiliitiila
Now I just have to put my two cents in, or sense in for that matter. Does anyone else have a problem with the GORN having the science ships? Anyone else agree with me?-Quiiliitiila
I've RP'ed a Gorn scientist since OB and I see no problem with it at all.
The problem I have is staring off a Gorn toon with 3 ground traits I get smoked by aliens.

It doesn't have to make sense (cents) to make dollars, and I'll be getting each. Great job guys! TYSVM
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
09-02-2011, 07:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiiliitiila
Now I just have to put my two cents in, or sense in for that matter. Does anyone else have a problem with the GORN having the science ships? Does it make any sense for these large brutish and warlike reptiles to fly around science ships?

Gee no wonder they lost their war with the Klingons, apparently they only make science ships for their fleet!

Come on people there is a reason that the Klingon faction has no science ships, it's because the races making up the KDF have no interest in science! Especially not the Gorn!

Anyone else agree with me?

-Quiiliitiila
I think your interpretation of the Gorn might be a bit narrow minded. The Gorn are an intelligent civilized species more interested in self defense than aggressive conquest. "Fleet Support" vessels make sense for the Gorn, as they do for almost any civilized faction in the Galaxy.

Having said that, I'm a little annoyed that science vessels are the ONLY Gorn ships we see. Nausicaans being restricted to "escorts" I can sort of see, the "Nausicaan Navy" has never been a factor and the "Nausicaan Union" has never been a galactic player, but the Gorn Hegemony fought the Klingons to a stand still for years, which means a balanced, versatile navy capable of meeting the Klingons head on. It certainly means that they'll need more than Fleet Support ships.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
09-02-2011, 08:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermbot View Post
I think your interpretation of the Gorn might be a bit narrow minded. The Gorn are an intelligent civilized species more interested in self defense than aggressive conquest. "Fleet Support" vessels make sense for the Gorn, as they do for almost any civilized faction in the Galaxy.

Having said that, I'm a little annoyed that science vessels are the ONLY Gorn ships we see. Nausicaans being restricted to "escorts" I can sort of see, the "Nausicaan Navy" has never been a factor and the "Nausicaan Union" has never been a galactic player, but the Gorn Hegemony fought the Klingons to a stand still for years, which means a balanced, versatile navy capable of meeting the Klingons head on. It certainly means that they'll need more than Fleet Support ships.
You said it much better than I did, I suppose my annoyance is with the fact that the only Gorn ships players get to fly are science vessels, when I said it makes up their fleet, I meant it only in the fact that player ships are supposed to represent the most top of the line vessels in that particular factions arsenal.

I never said that the Gorn were stupid or narrow minded, I said that they were large, brutish and warlike, which is true as we hold it to STO and STOs take of the Gorn. The Gorn are my favorite species in the Star Trek world, I know they are intelligent and cunning, but they never struck me as a race that spends their time making top of the line ships intended for electronic or scientific warfare. Perhaps it would've been more prudent of me to say that the Gorn were not the best choice for the science aspect of the KDF.

Quiiliitiila
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
09-02-2011, 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiiliitiila
Now I just have to put my two cents in, or sense in for that matter. Does anyone else have a problem with the GORN having the science ships? Does it make any sense for these large brutish and warlike reptiles to fly around science ships?

Gee no wonder they lost their war with the Klingons, apparently they only make science ships for their fleet!

Come on people there is a reason that the Klingon faction has no science ships, it's because the races making up the KDF have no interest in science! Especially not the Gorn!

Anyone else agree with me?

-Quiiliitiila
No, since they don't look like you they must be stupid?

Also the TOS Gorn had many weapons that they invented and even traded to the Feds TOS Era Weapons
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
09-02-2011, 12:47 PM
any starfaring race is going to have some sort of science ship. I find it surprising that there has been so little rational development of the Klingon faction by cryptic.. Honestly, you would think it would be fun! And alien ships are going to be a great deal easier to get a pass from CBS then fed ships and vaients. Well hopefully the folks at Perfect world will clue the Cryptic folk in on if your going to have more then a single faction co-op play type MMO then the other factions must be fleshed out.

I still want to see an actuall Klingon sci ship.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
09-02-2011, 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khemaraa_Iron_Hand_KBF View Post
any starfaring race is going to have some sort of science ship. [...] I still want to see an actuall Klingon sci ship.
Klingon space "exploration" developed completely different from most of the other cultures in the setting. The Klingons did not invent their space ships, and they were not on a quest for exploration - the basis of their technology was apprehended from another species and them venturing out into space was based on a policy of "aggressive defense" and a drive for expansion due to need for resources. Scientists and science itself still have a hard time in Klingon culture, which is why it makes complete sense that the KDF does not employ science ships. The closest you could come to them would be scout vessels like the Raptors.
This is why Klingons essentially behave like wild barbaric vikings (in the eyes of other species) - their culture was "not yet ready" to develop a scientific spirit and spacefaring technology.

Orions on the other hand have already surpassed their old days of civilization, the entire society having devolved into a semi-barbaric state of decadence, then manipulation, then piracy, simply because their culture had long surpassed its peak and they were unable to consolidate what they once had.

Nausicaans are even less stable as a society, essentially being based around individual mercenary or pirate bands venturing forth from their homeworld in search for challenges and profit. From what little we have seen on screen, they are entirely disorganized - we can only speculate how they got their hands on spaceships in the first place, though it may have been a similar case as with the Klingons, or (given how many Nausicaans are found as mercenaries in the outfits of other species) they got their first ships from the Ferengi or some other potential employer.

The Gorn are really the first and foremost KDF-allied species where science ships would make sense (they are warlike and expansionist, yet they have already proven their scientific aptitude on screen in a much stronger way than any of the other KDF species including the Klingons), and I do understand Cryptic's decision to "fan out" ship types and create a bit of diversity here. Sure, they could have just as well made all Gorn ships replicas of Klingon battlecruisers, and it would have fit just as much, but this way the interest in these ships will probably be a bit greater.

As has been pointed out, this does not mean that all Gorn ships currently active in STO's timeline are science vessels (in fact, several NPC encounters already dispell this assumption), and neither does it mean that, maybe, at some point in the future we couldn't get more ship variants for other branches. I'm sure that everyone, including Cryptic, would agree that every single species having a selection of ships for all careers on every tier would be the best scenario. It just isn't possible to roll them out all at once, so let's take one step at a time here, shall we?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
09-02-2011, 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiiliitiila
Now I just have to put my two cents in, or sense in for that matter. Does anyone else have a problem with the GORN having the science ships? Does it make any sense for these large brutish and warlike reptiles to fly around science ships?
I don't have much of a problem with it. And in terms of gameplay, I'm far more excited that the KDF are going to have science ships to level in.

Quote:
Gee no wonder they lost their war with the Klingons, apparently they only make science ships for their fleet!
They also play baseball.

Quote:
Come on people there is a reason that the Klingon faction has no science ships, it's because the races making up the KDF have no interest in science! Especially not the Gorn!

Anyone else agree with me?
I don't really agree with that assessment. The Gorn are obviously scientists. I've seen episodes (notably an ENT episode) with Klingon scientists. There are definitely joined Trill scientists. I bet there are also Nausicaan scientists. We know from the Albino storyline that there are Klingon and Orion scientists in bio-engineering. I bet there's Lethean scientists too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
09-02-2011, 09:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MzAnitak View Post
No, since they don't look like you they must be stupid?

Also the TOS Gorn had many weapons that they invented and even traded to the Feds TOS Era Weapons
I don't think people you guy's realize that I love the Gorn, I admit that I did not know all of the background that you all have so forcibly displayed and it had a severe impact on my previous rant.

I however want to clear one thing up... I NEVER said the Gorn were stupid, or un-evolved, I said they were brutish and warlike; which both statements are true in one way or another. It's just that my knowledge of the Gorn at the time led me to believe that they would not be the best choice for the KDF race to have the science ships.

-Quiiliitiila
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
09-02-2011, 10:52 PM
No worries, I don't think anybody around here knows everything that happened in one episode of Trek or another - even for people who have at some point in time seen them all, there's too many details to remember. This is what makes communities and forums like this one so nice: We can all learn from and supplement each other.
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