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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
09-08-2011, 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
After I switched from Aegis to Borg, my survivability increased for both ships.. Regardless of being in a LF group or PUGing.. I die less, I fly around without shields less, I stay in fights longer.
Yup. And that is essentially and basically what my graph shows. It does not take into account any other effects but pure hitpoints over time.

But my graph clearly shows your story being true. When i switched from Covariant to Normal shield array, i noticed a difference, then i went to Regenerative, i felt more of a difference. More independency from abilities and/or external source abilities.

So it effectively shows both of our 'experiences' are pretty much on the same line with this simplistic calculation; And thats what it is.

There are so many other ways to compensate for the small capacity loss in this game. Look at me, im not using a +35 cap console in a long time, even with the borg shields. People find me to be good tanky tanky for a defiant. Even accused me of hax.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Low shield capacity doesn't just make you susceptible to burst and shield stripping, it also wastes heals. Throwing a meaty extend, tss, or sci team on a target with low shield capacity runs the very significant risk of over-healing that target.
And Capacity shields also makes your precious shield hitpoints/capacity being blown off by multiple CPB's where borg loses less capacity because it _has_ less. And after that they regenerate much faster Thus also in that scenario the regen is much more important then your actual Capacity.

So theoretically, if your whole precious aegis capacity has been blown off, the graph should actually show you Borg Regen Benefit on the 0 second mark compared to Aegis

Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
You don't actually regenerate shields unless those shields take damage, so you would need to model that in.
Again its a representation of total hitpoints over time starting from full capacity yes. From that point on you could eventually say it represents a sustained damage. But nevertheless. If you take damage, even then regenerative shields are better.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
09-08-2011, 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaruslothran View Post
Hurleybird, I can tell you are passionate about how you feel about Covariants. I can respect that.

I am passionate about regens.
I'm not passionate about either one of them, or resilients either. Certain shields make sense in certain situations. Regen shields used to make more sense before the new torp spread came out though. I know that you were a very good player when you were playing regularly, but I fear that you might be looking at things with an antiquated perspective given your absence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaruslothran View Post
As a healer, I find I have to do a lot more healing to covariant users, on average than regen users. When I say healing, I am not just talking about hull. I mean TSS and Extend Shields and even a Science team if it comes down to it. The regen guy will occassionally take a bit more hull damage for a burst, but I can shore up his shields much easier and get him stabilized for a hull heal, once the hole has been plugged.... which is much easier.
As a healer I find the same thing.... at least when I'm healing pugs. Aside from ES cruisers aren't particularly good shield healers. Healing shields is a job suited to science ships. Between the two or three science ships you tend to have on most teams nowadays you should have enough science teams and 125-aux TSS2/3's to regularly recharge the shields on all of your team mates. It's also possible to set up specific 'shield healing builds' that can put out greater overall healing volume than a cruiser can. When I talk about balance I'm always thinking in the confines what I consider to be a properly set up team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaruslothran View Post
Use what works for you, but don't discount the play style of the user.
The shield question has less to do with your individual play-style, and more to do with what everyone around you is doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkfader1988
So theoretically, if your whole precious aegis capacity has been blown off, the graph should actually show you Borg Regen Benefit on the 0 second mark compared to Aegis
The whole point is that the CBP that completely strips away a regen shield user and leaves him vulnerable to the new torp spread or just good old fashioned burst isn't going to completely strip the guy who has capacity.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
09-08-2011, 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
The whole point is that the CBP that completely strips away a regen shield user and leaves him vulnerable to the new torp spread or just good old fashioned burst isn't going to completely strip the guy who has capacity.
There are always exceptions to broken abilities, sure. Lol'pengs completely circumvent Shields, why dont we add that weapon to the discussion?

Even a 10/15% on each shieldfacing can diminish any torpedo blast by far. Since most of us constantly distribute their shields anyway, so yes if u are against a team with massive CPB's Regens are optimal

I do acknowledge that with the new spread this could be a potential danger, but sure we got a good premade team with healers to count for that wont we?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
09-08-2011, 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkfader1988
I do acknowledge that with the new spread this could be a potential danger, but sure we got a good premade team with healers to count for that wont we?
The new Torp Spread can hit like a tric, and it can come from multiple opponents at once to multiple targets. It's not exactly something you want to try to heal after the fact. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure and all that...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
09-08-2011, 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaruslothran View Post
And with these powers, you can recover shields even faster with the Borg Set.

I have been using regen shields since the game has launched and it has been wonderfully effective.

The thing about regen shields is that they are extremely high maintenance. To really use them successfully, you have to be on top of them at all times. This means you have to balance them, shift to a certain facing and everything needed to keep all that great regen happening on all facings going to where you need it.

Personally I don't mind how much work they entail, because the results have been infinately more valuable than any covariant shield. Frankly I would use resilient shields before I would use Covariant. I Certainly hope that one of the new sets offers this kind of option as well.

It would be a hard choice for me to choice between resilient and regen... but an easy choice to stay away from covariant.

If you are in a fight longer than 40 seconds ( and typically I am in a fight for minutes at a time ) the regen shield is worth more overall shields than the covarient can ever achieve. Maintaining high shield resist through EPtS and other abilities, along with high shield power for regen.. these shields are a powerhouse.
QFT

In my raptor running EPtS1 and 2 plus 2 tac teams 1. It is fairly easy to get shields back quick in a hurry if I hit EPtS2 plus TT1 and if I really need some help there is TSS2. Out of combat though EPtS2 will get my borg shields from 10% back 80% in a blink.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
09-08-2011, 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
I'm not passionate about either one of them, or resilients either. Certain shields make sense in certain situations. Regen shields used to make more sense before the new torp spread came out though. I know that you were a very good player when you were playing regularly, but I fear that you might be looking at things with an antiquated perspective given your absence.

I still play a bit. I don't PvP 8 hours a day any more (especially since I have a new job that demands a lot more of my time) and I don't think there has been any major changes to space shield mechanics for the past few months, and definitely not season 4.

I actually have found that the new spread makes me want regen shields more. Even the smallest amount of shielding massively reduces torpedo damage. It is for this reason that I want to plug any holes even faster than before.

I don't know if you have ever considered me a "hard target" but I have been using these type of shields since season 1's blowout... remember the days of 2 second cruiser vaporization.

Well here is a score using regens from that infamous nightmare season.

Season 1 Score

And here is one from just a few days ago.

Season 4 Score - Galaxy R

I have a lot more of these scores saved.

I have been pretty consistent with these shields. It may just be the way I play, or my build.. or a secret organization of ninjas helping me... but I will always stand by them. The shields..not the ninjas.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 47
09-08-2011, 12:20 PM
Just ran some numbers to figure out SDR

Borg Set + 35% Console + Aegis Deflector + 7% console

Base power 100-50-25-25 (125-79-58-43) - 15.8% Resist

Effective shield 7796 x 1.158 = 9027.7 Effective shield arc

With EP2S1 : 103 Shield power = 22% (+18 from EP2S) = 40% resist

Effective shield 7796 x 1.4 = 10914.4

With EP2S2 : 111 Shield power = 23.6% (+24 from EP2S) = 47.6% resist

Effective Shield 7796 x 1.476 = 11506.8

-----------------

Aegis Set + 35% Console

Base power 100-25-50-25 (125-59-69-43) = 11505.3 Effective Shield

With EP2S1 : 83 Shield power = 16.6% (+18 from EP2S1) = 34.6% resist

Effective shield 10291 x 1.1346 = 13851

With EP2S1 : 91 Shield power = 18.2% (+24 from EP2S1) = 42.2% resist

Effective shield 10291 x 1.1422 = 14633


Im not a total geek, and I know there are some diminishing returns on SDR, but we are looking at roughly 2-3k worth of effective shield, not counting the regen..

--

At 100 power (Borg loadout is slightly over, Aegis slightly under) Borg Shields regen 9840 shield and Aegis a total of 4720... It takes 20-25 seconds before the regen of the Borg have caught up with the better cap of the Aegis..

(This is assuming the ship constantly rebalances shields)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 48
09-08-2011, 12:45 PM
I find the 3/4 Borg set works best on all my builds, covariant shields for escorts and regen or resil on cruisers and sci.

Regen with nice passive 20% resists to pha, ap, and dis are my fav. Especially on sci ships with a +35.

But I always find something I want more than the +35. It has been dropped from all of my builds except cruisers in favor or rcs or eps or neutronium. I find my survivability is so much better with regen. I am a little weak against burst from polaron, plasma and tetryon users. But that is like what? 5-6 people that q up?

Guess if the proc wasn't poo on those weapons I'd go with just a high cap shield. I just love those resists.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 49
09-08-2011, 09:43 PM
My old escort pug build wasn't designed for tanking. Id boost my shield capacity as much as I could with the Aegis and +35% console fly in do as much damage as possible hang in for a bit when the shields were gone that was it. Ramming speed and respawn :-) I think its still a good strategy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 50
09-11-2011, 01:00 PM
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Community Rules and Policies. ~Stormshade
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