Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
09-07-2011, 12:47 PM
Subs get 400 points per month in F2P system. When you have all you want, why not sell some? I would. P2Win makes a little sense with F2P doesn't it?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
09-07-2011, 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuccaneerDTB
Subs get 400 points per month in F2P system. When you have all you want, why not sell some? I would. P2Win makes a little sense with F2P doesn't it?
I'm not that inclined to agree. Why? Prior to this Pay2Win, there were (and still are) tons of the older C-Store ships flying around ESD (including Galaxy-Xs). This suggests that a good portion of them were bought for C-Points. So why the need to amp ships up in the C-Store? Most people come here to play Star Trek, not "pew pew zap I got you".
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
09-07-2011, 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RachelGarrett View Post
I'm really unhappy with how the jupiter guys let Al preset his point of view without pointing out the obvious problems flaws. I really don't know how you can go from "if you want to dens a message, cancel your subscription" to "everything is great". Only explanation: Al is a really charming guy.

To put it bluntly: the fact, that you can trade dilithium for c-points fixes nothing. Players who want to go this route are most likely not to gain access to c-store ships immediately after their promotion, since they need to accumulate huge amounts of dilithium first (considering that it takes roughly a month playtime to grind 500 Emblems). And even then I do not see, why anyone would want to trade c-points for dilithium to make this system work to start with. You would need to convert a lot of c-store and/or exclusive in-game items to something you can buy with dilithium. But what exactly are the items someone would like to buy for real money and not need to spend time grinding? For that we have:
  • The Delta Flyer Schematic (on Exchange for 500.000 EC)
  • The Aegeis Set (on Exchance for 1.500.000 EC)
  • The Borg Set (not tradable)
  • XP Boosts (on Exchange for 150.000 EC / 650.000 EC)
  • Diplomacy rewards (not tradable)
  • Veteran rewards (not tradable)
  • Referral rewards (not tradable)

That really is not something you can base a viable economy on where players basically sell their play time for real money to others. Additionally, consider the outrage, when the non-tradable items became tradable for dilithium. Or: consider the outrage, when Cryptic makes previously expensive C-Store items obtainable for decent amounts of dilithium.

So actually: No, dilithium for C-Points does not in any way fix the balancing issues of ships like the Rhode Island.

And Jeremy is plain wrong when stating, that right now players would have to spend money on the Retrofits like the Galaxy with Saucer Separation. First of all, these ships are Tier 6 and therefore better than Tier 5 ships like the Sovereign. Second, you get a free token for one of those ships when you reach VA1.

What he could have mentioned though, is the Excelsior. The Excelsior is slightly overpowered compared to the Galaxy, because it has a better turn rate and an additional console slot. But that is balanced out by the fact that the Galaxy has a built-in power usable in combat, while the transwarp-drive of the Excelsior gives no PvP advantage.

Regards,
Rachel

Its all well and good that the Excelsior has a better turn rate, but you have to realize that when it was first made its hull was almost like that of a raptors, whereas the Star cruiser was the king of hulls for Fed side. The problem I see here is that you can not compare just Fed vs. Fed ships for balance. Compare the Excelsior to a comparable Klingon Cruiser... The Klingon cruisers are awesome. They Cloak. They turn fast. They can actually reasonably use cannons. Compare to a ship which is the Fed equivalent the Galaxy-X, which has the worst turn ratio of them all. Why? This has irked me since I first played this ship.
As for the transwarp capability, I think it would be nice if owners of the Excelsior could use that capability on any of their ships.. that way they're not pigeonholed. Additionally, I'm quite fond of the Star Cruiser, and I'd like to see it get some love. Once upon a time it was the King of Tankers for Fed ships in this game... now its a straight dog, and that disappoints me, considering it is supposed to be the next advanced thing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
09-07-2011, 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borticus View Post
It may not come across in the episode (it's HARD to get all of my thoughts into a live session!), but I'm very much an opponent of Pay-to-Win gaming.

But I'm curious... from a Math standpoint, has anyone actually run PvP tests between various T2 ships to see if the Rhode Island truly FEELS like an imbalance at that level? And I'm not trying to defend it, I just want to honestly know.

I fully admit and recognize what the numbers indicate it's more powerful than another ship due primarily to the extra boff slot. But how much difference does that REALLY make, I wonder?

And let's extend that examination up to T5. If you had one more power at your disposal - one more boff slot - on your favorite VA ship, what would that actually do for you in a PvP scenario that couldn't be countered or would set you undeniably apart from the opponents? It would have to come down to power synergy and available counters to the enemies' tactics, wouldn't it?

Again, I don't want to sound like I'm defending the fact that x.5 ships (or +1 ships) are GOING to be perceived as Pay-to-Win, and perception is reality when it comes to PR for a game company. But I'm truly curious as to how the actual numbers play out. The math.

Maybe I should start a new thread on the subject though, instead of bogging down this one.
This is just what I was thinking. Extra BO has diminishing returns at higher levels, with shared recools and limited skill points.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
09-07-2011, 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuccaneerDTB
This is just what I was thinking. Extra BO has diminishing returns at higher levels, with shared recools and limited skill points.
Not at all. Think about it; You could cycle: EPtS/TacTeam or get another Hazards/TSS.

Extras BOs is never a bad thing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
09-07-2011, 01:17 PM
In my opinion, the trend is not going P2Win. It's going Pay for a Better Game Experience. RI and like ships are going to have a leg up but not a highly significant leg up. X.5 ships will be good enough to temp you to buy them but not good enough where you can win-button anyone who doesn't have one.

And this is where the C-Points for Dilithium comes in. Cryptic gets players off their back by saying they can now get any ship and any item using in-game methods. At the same time, those in game methods take so freakin' long that the quickest and easiest way to obtain X.5 is to use RMT's.

It's all marketing tactics to funnel C-Store purchases which support going F2P. If you don't pay $$$ you either wait for months to build up your stipends or grind months to pay ludicrous Dilithium prices. And I believe there's no longer anything we can do about it... we have arrived.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
09-07-2011, 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuanManChu
I'm not that inclined to agree. Why? Prior to this Pay2Win, there were (and still are) tons of the older C-Store ships flying around ESD (including Galaxy-Xs). This suggests that a good portion of them were bought for C-Points. So why the need to amp ships up in the C-Store? Most people come here to play Star Trek, not "pew pew zap I got you".
Yes, and those who pay money should get something for doing so. The game is going to be FREE.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
09-07-2011, 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvs5191 View Post
Not at all. Think about it; You could cycle: EPtS/TacTeam or get another Hazards/TSS.

Extras BOs is never a bad thing.
A 4th ensign Tac BO on DefiantR. NOT the most helpful thing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
09-07-2011, 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuccaneerDTB
Yes, and those who pay money should get something for doing so. The game is going to be FREE.
I collect ships (paying for them) yet I'm still concerned about the impact pay2win will have once things like PVP/PVE ladders are added to the game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
09-07-2011, 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuccaneerDTB
A 4th ensign Tac BO on DefiantR. NOT the most helpful thing.
True, but a 4th Ensign of the same class on any ship is going to be a waste (except for a Sci, possibly).

But I doubt the Devs are stupid enough to be 4 of the same Ensign on a single ship. So still, an extra BO is a good thing.
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