Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
09-08-2011, 08:54 AM
What you have to understand is that thru the entire star trek franchise, the main focus has been on humanities role in the Federation, Klingons were meant to be just another bad guy. It took time and fan demand to flesh them out to what they are today. I wish the Star Trek fans were as detailed as the guys who wrote the WOW or DnD background. If Cryptic had free reign over the Trek IP, It would be insane but everything has to go thru CBS, limiting what they are capable of. Be thankful of what the KDF currently have, if this game were published by the original developers (Perpetual Entertainment) it would be Federation only.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
09-08-2011, 09:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mondo80 View Post
What you have to understand is that thru the entire star trek franchise, the main focus has been on humanities role in the Federation, Klingons were meant to be just another bad guy. It took time and fan demand to flesh them out to what they are today. I wish the Star Trek fans were as detailed as the guys who wrote the WOW or DnD background. If Cryptic had free reign over the Trek IP, It would be insane but everything has to go thru CBS, limiting what they are capable of. Be thankful of what the KDF currently have, if this game were published by the original developers (Perpetual Entertainment) it would be Federation only.
1. Then why are there other races than humans available as captains?
Since all the leaders in the Trek shows were humans (as you pointed out they were the focus) and your char is the main character like in the shows it should be human, right?
Or does expanding from beyond what was in the shows affect the Federation only?

2. If it was so difficult to make Klingon material, why are there several games out there that managed to do that and even games like "Star Trek Klingon" or "Klingon Academy" that focus entirely on them?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
09-08-2011, 09:25 AM
Moved all my stuff over to Fed side today, guess it's going to stay there for the foreseeable future.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
09-08-2011, 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
1. Then why are there other races than humans available as captains?
Since all the leaders in the Trek shows were humans (as you pointed out they were the focus) and your char is the main character like in the shows it should be human, right?
Or does expanding from beyond what was in the shows affect the Federation only?

2. If it was so difficult to make Klingon material, why are there several games out there that managed to do that and even games like "Star Trek Klingon" or "Klingon Academy" that focus entirely on them?
checkmate!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
09-08-2011, 09:32 AM
I played Klingon's at release and got bored to tears, I lasted approx 3 months and quit.

I have come back and I have to say Klingon game play is no better. Yes we have some PvE encounters and a few more quests but PvP is completly dead at low levels.

I am liking tactical combat but even that is deeply flawed I use a pistol because its the only weapon that fires quick enough for tatical.

I suspect Klingon game play will be dead come F2P and if it was not for the foundry and some well done player written missions would be dead now. Thre is only so many expanse missions I can take,
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
09-08-2011, 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bran_Mak_Morrn View Post
What we've all been witness to is the continued lack of development and support for the KDF.
It has recieved some of both, but mind you, at a considerably smaller fraction of what the Fed faction has recieved.

What is in question, is the future of the KDF post-F2p. How will Cryptic develop and suport the faction pre-ad post-F2P?
6 months after F2P? 18 months after F2P?

There is already at hand a great deal of information pertaining to
Cryptic's history with the KDF, suppose we draw from that to obtain the foresight as to where the KDF is headed post-F2P.

So, the situation we are in at present is as follows (to summarize)-
-KDF was a minority of the population at launch
-the % of KDF players has dropped significantly since (due to lack of development)
-now the planned deletion of the first 25 levels of KDF gameplay (for an as of yet undisclosed amount of time)
-this course of action seems to be acceptable to the majority of players overall. However according to recent polls, the % of players unhappy with F2P directly mirrors the % numbers of people playing KDF (as calculated and reported by the Executive Producer himself).

History, if not learned from, repeats itself.

This is all just speculation, based on Cryptic's history with the KDF... I hope I'm wrong, but my gut (as well as History) tells me otherwise.


Step #1=Launch the KDF faction in a unfinished state (lack of PvE). KDF Faction is inherently a minority, as it is NON-Federation (Fed Faction being the one the IP is based on). The incentive, given by Cryptic, to play KDF is because it's EZ to level through PvP. PvP XP is OP, draws 'exploiters', then gets nerf'd to the point of PvP'ing being not worth doing to level. Lack of PvE to level drives players from KDF. This very first 'salespitch' for the KDF tried to take the gaming industry's biggest negative (lack of content), and put a positive spin on it (KDF supposedly a PvP faction at launch).

Step #2= Continued underdevelopment of the faction reduces KDF playerbase. The reason given is the significantly smaller (compared to the Fed) playerbase of the KDF. FvF PvP is introduced, due to lack of KDF'ers for FvK. PvP'ers can level easier Fed-side and still have access to PvP, as well as PvE. FvF is where the majority of PvP'ers Q, due to lack of KDF for FvK. FvF appears to be a 'win'. Continues to decrease the # of KDF PvP'ers, (thus the KDF playerbase diminishes further) as they switch to Fed side for quicker Q's (FvF, having more players, offers such). New KDF content (9 storyline missions spread over the entirety of levelling) is not sufficient to draw Feds to KDF, is used as a reason to continue underdeveloping KDF PvE.

Step #3= Continue to promise BIG CHANGES to keep the minority playerbase (KDF) subbing, while KDF faction continues to diminish (lack of said big change drives players to Fed or out of the game entirely). Cryptic introduces a system that re-structures the Featured Episode PVE content for the KDF, making the Breen series available at lvl 11, Devidian series @ lvl 21, Romulan series @ lvl 31. Change is NOT introduced Fed-side and not even acknowledged until 9 days after the change went live. KDF players at lower levels stop levelling (lack of PVE, FE's primarily) and switch to levelling Fed alts. KDF playerbase once again diminishes prior to announcement of F2P.

Step #4= (F2P Announced)Propose a BIG change that is not going to be popular with the (now even smaller) KDF playerbase. (possible -25 levels)
Polls state that the majority of the entire playerbase supports the 'unpopular' BIG CHANGE, thus inferring the BIG CHANGE is good for the game overall (and overall playerbase). Said BIG CHANGE is not a long-term solution to increasing a sustainable KDF playerbase, but a short-term "1/2 off" salespitch that tries to take the Gaming industry's biggest negative (lack of content), and put a positive spin on it. (see 'step 1, last sentence)
Continued underdevelopment of the KDF faction during transition to F2P (resources allocated to F2P transition) reduces # of possible new KDF players during transition to F2P.(most are waiting for F2P to go live, free level 25 KDF'er for those already playing).


Of course these polls are going to show the change appears to be popular, many KDFers have left, (less 'resistancce' to the change) and the polls take into account opinions of both KDF players AND Fed players. Most Fed players interested in levelling a KDF toon are THRILLED at not having to progress 1/2 the grind. However, it should be of note, the % of players 'unhappy' with the the F2P transition, roughly mirrors the % of the KDF playerbase as we understand based on #'s from the Executive Producer. Coincidence?

So let's imagine we cannot do anything to stop the the axe from falling on the KDF's first 25 levels. Suppose we can't find a viable alternative solution in time, to make those beginner levels more appealing.


History repeating itself... (hypothetically speaking) the steps are basically the same.

Step #1= Launch BIG CHANGE with no new KDF content. Gimped state due to lack of first 25 levels. Incentive to play is it's EZ to level (skip the first 1/2 of the faction's content). Said BIG CHANGE is not a long-term solution to increasing a sustainable KDF playerbase, but a short-term "1/2 off" salespitch that tries to take the Gaming industry's biggest negative (lack of content), and put a positive spin on it. See step 1, last sentence, from above.
Meanwhile, this 'short-term soltion' will take a 'long-term' to develop and implement (F2P by end of year=3-3&1/2 months. new KDF content to fill 25 level void is to be released at an undisclosed date- "nowhere on the map")

Step #2= Continued underdevelopment of the faction reduces KDF playerbase.
F2P launches.
Feds that waited to level KDF are discouraged fom levelling a KDF when they start levelling one due to the fact that the first 25 levels were easiest to grind (25+ is where it slows down, ask any KDF'er playing currently) and that the only available content (minus the 9 or so KDF exclusive missions) are repeats of missions (FE's) they played as a Fed (no new content is scheduled to be added in the F2P transition).
Small KDF playerbase @ launch of F2P ensured by the fact new players must play 25 levels of the 'fully functional faction' first, where they have access to the majority of KDF content (minus 9 or so missions). This is in addition to the discouraged Fed alts who were already playing, detailed directly above, who may discontinue levelling a KDF post-F2P launch to play their Fed mains (or alts, as their is more Feds to level with at T1 and T2).

Step #3= Continue to promise BIG CHANGES to keep the minority playerbase subbing (the # of new KDF players after F2P will be, a minority-as history has shown, @ the original launch and soon after). Meanwhile, new KDF PvE players switch back to Fed-side, as they have already played a majority of the KDF's content (FE's) while levelling their Fed toons (who have access to these FE's at lower levels, which also happen to be touted as the 'best PvE missions in the game') Their Fed mains are already halfway to level cap- and also have content available to them at those higher tiers that they haven't played, that are only available to Feds.
The system supports new players having access to 'faction agnostic' content Fed-side first, thus effectively making a majority of KDF content Old News when / IF they decide to roll KDF. The only 'new' content after 25, is Fed-side.
New KDF PvP'ers will more than likely remain Fed players (as Mains), as there is no FvK Q's at lower levels, thus bolstering the players in FvF Q's at those levels. Upon even looking at the FvK Q's when reaching the level to make a KDF toon, PvP'ers will see it's still easier to level FvF (due to lack of KDF'ers for FvK) as there are simply more Feds-and more Feds to PvP with.

In addition, the KDF suffers from numerous KDF exclusive bugs (due to having to undergo a second change when the game goes F2P- the deletion of said 25 levels), decreasing the value of gameplay and making the faction appear less attractive.
Bugs are not resolved, as the push for New KDF content is in high demand to retain players. (we've seen non-gamebreaking bugs left unresolved for extended periods of time before). This (could) leads to the proposal of a smaller, quicker 'BIG CONTENT Update' instead of the BIG CONTENT update promised when F2P was announced, for the sake of making the faction more viable sooner.

Step #4= Propose a smaller 'BIG CONTENT Update' based on lack of new KDF'ers, (why make new content, for fewer new players)and also due in part to development time being alotted to fixing gamebreaking bugs acquired when the first 25 levels were removed. The official reason for a -theoretical- proposed "smaller update' will be that KDF needs content ASAP, smaller block of content takes less time, time already limited b/c of bugsquashing.
That will be unpopular with current subbers (who were promised a BIG update) but once again skewed polls will state the majority of the playerbase (overall, not just KDF playerbase) supports a smaller 'big update' with promised future updates at an undisclosed date. Once again, when (if) KDF content update goes live, it is riddled with KDF exclusive bugs that take more time away from development to fix. More 'smaller' content updates are pushed back, to fix these bugs, while the Fed side has no new bugs and thus seems more appealing. Players that did not contine playing KDF shortly after F2P went live (Vets and New players alike) will be discouraged from KDF levelling because of these.

Like I said, this is only 1 possible outcome, but based on past actions it is very possible.

It is in no way shape or form intended to be a gloom & doom thread, or a troll thread, it's not even a pessimistic view (if you have a solid understanding on the history of CS and the KDF, you may realize it is a very realistic view) even if not optimistic.
I'm not posting this out of nerdrage or a desire to push anyone away from the game, but rather, to better help people understand what I mean when I say that removing the first 25 levels of KDF play could be a very, very bad thing for the faction given the history between CS and the KDF.

If you'd like to contribute some ideas to how we can avoid the axe from dropping, post here
although i am mainly a fed player I completely agree, if the KDF had more PVE(Story Content) more people would most likely join the KDF and play though the Story Missions
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
09-08-2011, 10:05 AM
Well...

When it comes to mission content, the majority of all content launched the past half year has been episodic content available to both factions. True there are the remastering of the Federation missions, but both sides will share most of the new content together. As for ships and customizable uniforms, the recent addition of the Klingon trainee outfit, which looks quite medieval I might add, and the upcomming two ships due to release this weekend, one for each side, I am optimistic.

Actually, yes. Strangly optimistic. I believe history is changing. True, the Federation will probably continue to get the lion's share of new uniforms and vessels, but with new low level ships on the horizon, including a new Gorn vessel of some kind (see STOked), I believe better times are comming. I will continue to have a link in my signature to the former history of the Empire, but I believe our grieviances might be diminished in the future. As for klingons starting at lvl 25, I guess I understand the reason for it, but I do not have to like it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
09-08-2011, 10:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitrol
Moved all my stuff over to Fed side today, guess it's going to stay there for the foreseeable future.
And the Cryptic plan begins to succeed....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
09-08-2011, 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
I don't know why but after thinking about this L25 change there is only one phrase entering my mind that seems to describe what this is:
"Admit defeat, cut your losses and move on."
you talking about KDF'ers, or Cryptic? 'Cause I'm seriously considering it (yet again)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khemaraa_Iron_Hand_KBF View Post
And me, I need to not try and write these post after a triple espesso and no sleep. ~sigh!~

Passionate about STO, Passionate about playing Klingon. Give Me My Game.... NOW!
lol! ditto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawks View Post
The Devs simply progress as usual.:

1. Make big promises to keep some players interested
2. Don't intent to keep them
3. Say that they will be coming "soon", but don't follow up on the promises from 1

That is what I believe will happen. Cyptic has not much developed the KDF since launch and I don't think this attitude will change any time soon. It will even more slow down when F2P since C-Store will have to keep the revenue coming in, and for that tehy needt heir meager Dev team to develop P2W ships, new costumes etc.
that's what I'm afraid of here. that pretty much sums it up.
now, why other players can't see how I'd feel this way... well, that's the reason for the OP< to open some eyes up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gx4th View Post
I hear you on that man, but at least they will not be seeing anymore of our money until they create content.
agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MinosOne
I'd feel a lot better if I knew what the priority was for the Klingon Update. Are we talking about Season 5? Season 6? Something after that? The longer the delay, the worse it will be for the Klingons and the less good some huge Klingon Udpate will do when it is finally released.
when do the Engineering reports come out? It's September now, the most recent one I see is for August...
the longer the delay, the worse it's going to get, people are going to continue leaving...or stop levelling...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khern View Post
Actually, yes. Strangly optimistic. I believe history is changing... As for klingons starting at lvl 25, I guess I understand the reason for it, but I do not have to like it.
I'd like to believe that history is changing... unfortunately, I'm not sure if I can. Time will tell, I guess. (again)
As for the KDF starting out at level 25, I don't like it because it's a short-term solution to a long-term problem that's going to take a long-term to get right. And I'm not entirely convinced as to how it's good for the KDF in either short or long term.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
09-08-2011, 10:48 AM
Well, we all get the fact that there's going to be fewer klingons than feds, just like there's way more WoW alliance players than horde.

What's good about this F2P though is that when those feddies reach level 25, they'll have klingons that are mid level already. Cryptic can design missions, locales, ships, etc. for both now. What few klingon missions we DO have are ok, with the Grethor one being very good. If cryptic designs something of that nature again, then they'll already have a good number of feds with klingons to buy the kling mission pack.

They'll get an influx of players for federation initially. They already have missions for the feds at all level ranges. I'm willing to bet that most people will at least try a klingon when they unlock it. Being star trek nerds, they'll at least have some interest in the klingon faction.

It's really not about feds v klings in the long run now. F2P means that they can design missions for either side and make money, since most will have a character for both factions. They'll want to see the good content for either side, so if cryptic releases good content for kling side, they'll snatch that up if the price is right. And pay NOTHING for stuff they won't like.

Damnit, I hate sounding like a cryptic lackey... I feel dirty. So here's a parting flip of the middle phaser to Stahl and crew.
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