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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
09-12-2011, 09:41 PM
I think he meant the corellian Corvette mission. An I also remember Axkva the Night Sister queen (Keenly sought after Energy Lance Schematic). Got up EVERY morning just after server reset to get her before anyone else got out there to kill here LOL.. With a group of 4. If someone failed to turn up then the show wouldn't go on and I'd go back to bed LOL.


Fun days
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
09-12-2011, 11:34 PM
Good read. I agree.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
09-12-2011, 11:52 PM
Yeah, the vette and the deathwatch bunker was the only 2 basic instances for a time, but TooW came just before the NGE, a couple of week, if I remember right and included the HK series. That's how the creature handlers got some of the musti animals for a short time. These were very expensive after beastmaster was put in for the 90% DNA for stuffed "pre-NGE" pets. That also started the requests/etc for refunds on the TooW expansion due to NGE being released very quickly thereafter.

I played SWG for way too many years. Liked it. However, best guesstimates on the top playerbase for pre-CU and even CU was 300K players. Rubenfield said in his blog that just before NGE, SWG was losing 10K subs per month and was down to around the 200K mark. WoW got well over a million subs very quickly. That was the problem. It seemed to developers that themepark MMOs were more the way to go than sandbox/group style development. "Spin-groups" were fun as long as you could find the players to do it. After jedi unlock was taken out, there just wasn't much reason to grind profs anylonger either.

A very small part of it was welcomed. Mostly the not being required to group. Even in CU the playerbase started to dwindle and groups were sometimes hard to find. There were servers hit harder by CU than others also. Kauri was 1 of them and group play was few and far between then. However, the "dumbing down" of the game and crafting in particuliar, became real sore spots in NGE. Not to even mention the take away development style of all that was lost in a single patch, 32 profs, skill boxes, dual proffing, the village, "1 clicky jedi, etc etc etc. There was no WoW style talent system in SWG at launch of NGE.

I got my vent server, way back when, because of SWG. IMHO, vent hasn't taken away 1 iota out of MMOs. Vent lives mostly due to MMOs.

I miss a lot of the development style that the OP does also, but forced grouping for everything in a game is not 1 of them. If you played SWG on the right server, after CU and even NGE, you might miss it but if you got caught on the wrong server, it was no fun at all.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
09-13-2011, 12:17 AM
I don't miss forced grouping of UO. I don't miss being required having friends if I wanted to even contemplate leaving a town. I don't miss having to hike halfway across the game world naked because I had the gall to want crafting resources and I didn't take a posse with me. I don't miss being drafted into a gatherer posse because I was on and a friend needed some help and they'd done it for me last time.

Seriously, I don't miss old-style MMOs at all. I enjoy being able to play with my friends. But no one should be required to have a group formed so that someone can skin a rabbit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
09-13-2011, 12:31 AM
I don't miss forced grouping. I do miss running into someone doing what I'm doing.

The only place I encounter this in STO is "Spin the Wheel", which is the place where it makes the least sense.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
09-13-2011, 01:09 AM
I appreciated the viewpoint, but I do feel there was a heavy dose of nostalgia coloring his memories. As many here also mentioned, he seemed to have forgotten nicely the horrendous downtime to all the forced grouping. At a certain level, everyone had set groups for leveling which left a lot of people out in the cold. Also, people in those groups became absolutely obssessed with having the "perfect" party with just the right skills and the very best equipment. It got to a point where you basically have to interview and audition before getting a party just to get some measely exp. Talk about being lonely in a crowd.

I don't think TS or vent or the like are exclusionary at all. Firstly, they are all supremely easy to get and free. It takes all of 5 minutes to get up and running. Secondly, those services wouldn't even be an issue if the game in question had its own working voice chat. The ones who do exclude people with TS or Vent are going to exclude them no matter if they use voice chat or not.

Guilds have been and always will be the same. There are elitist punks and there are decent people. People are fooling themselves if they want to believe that somehow "MMOs of old" weren't swimming with pretentious losers who treat guild admission as if it was an Ivy League college.

It's hard to argue that many modern MMOs are much too combat centered. We definitely need more varied diversions but I do understand proper execution is a lot harder than it looks.

Quote:
I don't miss forced grouping. I do miss running into someone doing what I'm doing.
+1, my best experiences in MMOs usually come from these encounters.

In my view, "soloism" was there from the beginning and it's merely taken a different form now. Before, it was elitism. Now, devs have overcompensated with too easy leveling and sometimes broken teaming. We were cripplingly dependent on grouping in the past and now we're way to independent. Eventually, someone will find a better balance (hopefully).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
09-13-2011, 01:14 AM
Incidentally, I think WoW's dungeon queue system is great and with diminished importance of class roles, it would be great in STO if they picked the text lite missions and let us randomly queue for one scaled to five players, with emblem rewards.

I would also like a sortof Lego Indiana Jones/Battletoads dynamic where we share a map with an adversary and race to complete PvE objectives while thwarting but not killing our opponent.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
09-13-2011, 01:17 AM
The thing that bothers me the most about STO in general is that there are no "off the beaten path" side quests. Sort of like the Elder Scrolls games. I mean we have all these star systems, but there is nothing to do on them. You cannot even visit them unless there is a mission there. And don't even get me started on everything being instances. It really makes the game feel small. There just isn't that feeling of being a tiny speck in a huge universe.

It would be great if there was a way to go to these systems and have at least one or two mission givers and the only way to find them was to actually visit the system or planet/s in these star systems.
The exploration sectors are a joke I'm sorry to say.

STO could have done with at least another year in development.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
09-13-2011, 01:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard454 View Post
The thing that bothers me the most about STO in general is that there are no "off the beaten path" side quests. Sort of like the Elder Scrolls games. I mean we have all these star systems, but there is nothing to do on them. You cannot even visit them unless there is a mission there. And don't even get me started on everything being instances. It really makes the game feel small. There just isn't that feeling of being a tiny speck in a huge universe.

It would be great if there was a way to go to these systems and have at least one or two mission givers and the only way to find them was to actually visit the system or planet/s in these star systems.
The exploration sectors are a joke I'm sorry to say.

STO could have done with at least another year in development.
I found it promising when they had the warriguls in Mine Enemy. An NPC mentions that to tame one, you need to find a cub in the wild. I went outside the city searching for a cub because, in a classical MMO, that would have been a clue to look for a Warrigul cub either on the map or as an enemy drop.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
09-13-2011, 01:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
I found it promising when they had the warriguls in Mine Enemy. An NPC mentions that to tame one, you need to find a cub in the wild. I went outside the city searching for a cub because, in a classical MMO, that would have been a clue to look for a Warrigul cub either on the map or as an enemy drop.
Exactly, I did the same thing and you know what? Nothing, zip, zero, nada.
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