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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Hey everyone!

I apologize for starting Yet Another Thread on this, but after a day of google-ing I still can't find any completely conclusive information - there's always someone claiming results that differ from testing done.

So, I just got my Engineer up to Read Admiral Upper Half, and decided to move him from an escort into an Assault Cruiser, and go full on beam boat - I just want to know how far I should push my weapon power to keep things effective; my OWN tests have been inconclusive. XD

Running at a flat 100 weapon power (95 + cruiser bonus), I can maintain an 8 beam broadside and have my Weapon Power tank to 30 or so. That's not unexpected. If I bring my power to 124 (Borg console, 2x+7 weapon power consoles) it drops to around 55-60 during a broadside. A little more than I expected, but not too far off the mark.

If I throw on EPW2, that adds another 30 weapon power in theory. My 8 beam broadsides bottom my power out around 80 or so. If I tack on EPS Transfer for ANOTHER 30ish power, things still seem to only bottom out around 85-90. This seems counter to the claims I've seen made that you can maintain 8 beams and still be at 125 power while firing.

Now, don't get me wrong, my PvE dps is great, and I'm not really sacrificing much durability (though I'm useless in PvP, but this is a PvE exercise for me.) I was just wondering if anyone has recently and conclusively figured out what the mechanics are? I know there seems to be some odd interaction between max usable power and max power and how fast usable power regenerates due to EPS consoles, but...

So confused. Halp?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
09-07-2011, 09:50 AM
the maths are not clear to me. i was wondering about that too.

one theory once was, that the additional power above 125, will have no effect on the first beams, they will do their dmg as if 125 power are there. the additional weaponpower would just prevent the further beams to drop too low.

example: you have 125 weaponpower and use 8 beams, all fire at same time. it goes 125,115,105,95,85,75,65,55. so last beam fires with 55 power.

now if you would have a power "buffer" of lets say 40 energy it would result in this:

125,125,125,125,115,105,95,85.


testing of me showed: this is not exactly the case.
weaponpower doesnt drop as far as in ex 1 but it falls lower then i expected of example 2.

also it was hard to evaluate if the 4 first beams in example2 really fired with 125 power ...

i know that a power buffer has some effect, which one, i can hardly say.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
09-07-2011, 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelOfDespair
the maths are not clear to me. i was wondering about that too.

one theory once was, that the additional power above 125, will have no effect on the first beams, they will do their dmg as if 125 power are there. the additional weaponpower would just prevent the further beams to drop too low.

example: you have 125 weaponpower and use 8 beams, all fire at same time. it goes 125,115,105,95,85,75,65,55. so last beam fires with 55 power.

now if you would have a power "buffer" of lets say 40 energy it would result in this:

125,125,125,125,115,105,95,85.


testing of me showed: this is not exactly the case.
weaponpower doesnt drop as far as in ex 1 but it falls lower then i expected of example 2.

also it was hard to evaluate if the 4 first beams in example2 really fired with 125 power ...

i know that a power buffer has some effect, which one, i can hardly say.
Also you have to account firing cycles. When B1 fires it is free when B2 fires it cost 10 WP but when B2 is done firing you get the 10 back but B3 is firing there is an overlap. IIRC the cap is now hard at 125
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
09-07-2011, 10:00 AM
I should mention that when I was doing my very limited testing, I made sure to keep my target in my broadside arc, and fired all 8 beams at once. In theory, that should eliminate the power cycling overlap, no?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
09-07-2011, 10:05 AM
The last I had heard, 135 weapon power was the hard cap (even though 125 is the most that will be displayed), and any power that would push it above 135 is lost and wasted.

I did hear this quite a while ago though, and it's entirely possible that this has changed and is no longer true, but as I haven't heard of any changes since I read that, I have been assuming that this is still the case.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
09-07-2011, 10:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ainu
The last I had heard, 135 weapon power was the hard cap (even though 125 is the most that will be displayed), and any power that would push it above 135 is lost and wasted.

I did hear this quite a while ago though, and it's entirely possible that this has changed and is no longer true, but as I haven't heard of any changes since I read that, I have been assuming that this is still the case.
Hm. I shall have to give that a try, see what my numbers look like. So, in theory, with my EPW2 giving 33 power or so, I could park my weapon power at 105 and still see optimal 8 beam DPS? That'd free up a lot for shields, or even Engines! Darn my Sovvie's turn rate to heck.

Edited to Add: While I'm at it, does FAW drain energy faster? It seems to, but I couldn't tell if each extra shot added weapon drain - Against a single Borg Cube with FAW2, I couldn't quite tell. I might have to actually put Nadion Inversion on my skillbar, though!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
09-07-2011, 10:18 AM
135 was a bug. It actually didn't even always work - after they fixed the drain on turrets (for a while they didn't return energy right at the end of their cycle), if one fired first in the cycle, it acted as if 125 was the cap. EPTW also didn't count up to the 135 cap, and actually during EPTW normal drain started at 125 instead of 135... At least since January I can confirm that was fixed, and I've re-tested several times to settle questions like this one.



Anyway, best way to test isn't live fire, but with a partial loadout. 3-4 weapons will give you less jumping around with overlapping cycles than firing all 8.

Testing right now with 4 beam arrays (maximum drain 10x3=30) on my escort and taking the bottom line:

115/80: Expected: 85 Actual: 85
125/90: Expected: 95 Actual: 95
125/100 (10 overflow): Expected: 105 Actual: 95
125/100 plus an extra +7 console (17 overflow): Expected: 122 Actual: 95
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
09-07-2011, 10:26 AM
I only know what I've read. Originally, we were able stack/buffer power above 125 via +weapon power consoles, batteries, and skills such as EPtW and EPS Power Transfer. This would allow for example, an 8-beam shot sequence of 125,125,125,125,115,105,95,85 as opposed to 125,115,105,95,85,75,65,55 when you didn't have any stacked/buffered power. But supposedly, Cryptic eliminated the ability to stack/buffer power above 125 by setting the absolute hard-cap to 125. Furthermore, along with this change Cryptic also supposedly implemented instant power recovery for weapons fire, meaning EPS consoles should no longer be necessary to gain all your power back for the next firing cycle.

Everyone is confused because there is what we have been told -- the above -- and then what actually happens in-game. I know for a fact weapon power is not always being totally recovered before the next firing cycle. If I'm firing 4 beams continuously and have my weapon power at 125, the weapon volleys should be 125, 115, 105, 95... 125, 115, 105, 95... 125, 115, 105, 95... repeatedly, never dropping below 95. But this is not what happens when you watch your power levels. Weapon power consistently drops below 95 before returning to 125, which should not be possible if things worked as advertised.

Also, there have been mixed reports on whether or not stacking/buffering power above 125 still works. I have not done any extensive testing, but from my experience using +weapon power consoles to go above 125 does not work. +Weapon Power skills and Batteries might work in some capacity or even to full effect, I don't know, but I cannot really say. When the patch notes for -- the above -- were released I took them on face value and changed my builds to not stack power. PvE, stacking/buffering weapon power doesn't really matter, so even though I noticed weapon power recovery was not working as advertised, and thus put an EPS console back in my build, I never explored the weapon power stacking. I probably should with all the reports of it still working, especially if I ever get into PvP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
09-07-2011, 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hevach View Post
135 was a bug. It actually didn't even always work - after they fixed the drain on turrets (for a while they didn't return energy right at the end of their cycle), if one fired first in the cycle, it acted as if 125 was the cap. EPTW also didn't count up to the 135 cap, and actually during EPTW normal drain started at 125 instead of 135... At least since January I can confirm that was fixed, and I've re-tested several times to settle questions like this one.



Anyway, best way to test isn't live fire, but with a partial loadout. 3-4 weapons will give you less jumping around with overlapping cycles than firing all 8.

Testing right now with 4 beam arrays (maximum drain 10x3=30) on my escort and taking the bottom line:

115/80: Expected: 85 Actual: 85
125/90: Expected: 95 Actual: 95
125/100 (10 overflow): Expected: 105 Actual: 95
125/100 plus an extra +7 console (17 overflow): Expected: 122 Actual: 95

Have you tested continuously firing 4 beams? Or did the overflow test with a skill or battery as opposed to a +weapon power console or +weapon power from the ship itself?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
09-07-2011, 10:37 AM
That is continuous testing, or rather continuous enough to destroy an NPC cruiser with only four beams of an energy type other than my spec (tested with phasers, specced for antiproton) and no buffs.



Edit: Also, since you asked:


125/100+red matter capacitor (35 overflow): Expected: 125 Actual: 95
125/100+EPTW (don't remember what the overflow should be here) Expected: ~125 Actual: 95

I'll run another with a weapon battery if you want.
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