Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
09-14-2011, 01:24 PM
I don't mind the duration. I don't mind that it's not fragile. I do think it should turn everyone into an enemy. I also think you should be able to heal yourself 100% of the time. It's not like having the sensors malfunctioning could make a Science Team beam to a different ship when they were supposed to report to deflector control instead.
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# 12
09-14-2011, 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvsaris View Post
I don't mind the duration. I don't mind that it's not fragile. I do think it should turn everyone into an enemy. I also think you should be able to heal yourself 100% of the time. It's not like having the sensors malfunctioning could make a Science Team beam to a different ship when they were supposed to report to deflector control instead.
Honestly with out a duration change the enemy change would make pugin extremley frustrating. It would make it even harder for people to heal each other... even if they where trying too.

The duration in my view is the worst issue with SS... really one ship 2 copies 100% uptime... that is pretty un cool.
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# 13
09-14-2011, 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
Honestly with out a duration change the enemy change would make pugin extremley frustrating. It would make it even harder for people to heal each other... even if they where trying too.
Cant be worse than now tbh. And this simple change would solve the cloak bug and misfires....if that would show insufficient, we can always nerf this skill to ground.
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Posts: 120
# 14
09-14-2011, 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
Cant be worse than now tbh. And this simple change would solve the cloak bug and misfires....if that would show insufficient, we can always nerf this skill to ground.
Good point... I say put in on par with VM... seeing as its a bout as annoying. lol
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# 15
09-14-2011, 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
Honestly with out a duration change the enemy change would make pugin extremley frustrating. It would make it even harder for people to heal each other... even if they where trying too.

The duration in my view is the worst issue with SS... really one ship 2 copies 100% uptime... that is pretty un cool.
Eh... every ship in PvP should be carrying at least one Sci Team. That'll take care of one and the cooldown is short enough that you can hit it again if they pop another one... as long as you are able to actually heal yourself, that is.

Perhaps a long global cooldown should be added so that it would be impractical for a ship to run two copies?
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# 16
09-14-2011, 02:31 PM
Thanks for the feedback.

Be aware that I do read most of the relevant posts in this forum and many others (yes, Sivar, yours too ). Some of the ideas raised are practical, some simply won't work given technical constraints or practical complications. (For example, a Confuse effect is a Confuse effect - without new tech we can't actually have it pick and choose what abilities it works for or who it works for.)

That being said, there are still a number of potential options on the table, and we are considering many of them.

One thing we are immediately putting into the pipeline is capping the maximum number of targets to 5. Note that this is not the final word on the power, it's merely something that we can safely, quickly and incontrovertibly put into the pipeline.

(Note, too, that the max target does not distinguish between player and non-player targets such as torpedoes, fighters, etc. - this is a technical limitation, but it does mean that max targets 5 doesn't necessarily mean "5 player ships".)

Development and balancing is way, way more complicated than most players realize. Technical limitations, production realities, unintended consequences, and limited resources and time make it a continual challenge.

While there is a vast amount of information and constraints and ramifications that players are not privy to, the reality is that players have a practical, on the ground body of knowledge that when tapped can provide very useful data points and ideas for the development process. As long as the discourse remains productive towards the practical end of making a better, more balanced game, we are more than happy to open a window for you all into the development process.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
09-14-2011, 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
One thing we are immediately putting into the pipeline is capping the maximum number of targets to 5. Note that this is not the final word on the power, it's merely something that we can safely, quickly and incontrovertibly put into the pipeline.

(Note, too, that the max target does not distinguish between player and non-player targets such as torpedoes, fighters, etc. - this is a technical limitation, but it does mean that max targets 5 doesn't necessarily mean "5 player ships".)
Thank you for the information. I'm gonna run the Vault tonight and pick up some Scorpion Fighters.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
09-14-2011, 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
Thanks for the feedback.

Be aware that I do read most of the relevant posts in this forum and many others
Thanks for chiming in Heretic, and i m happy to hear that you take the time to read the feedback on the forums, adn to communicate with the community

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
One thing we are immediately putting into the pipeline is capping the maximum number of targets to 5. Note that this is not the final word on the power, it's merely something that we can safely, quickly and incontrovertibly put into the pipeline.
Well better a not final word from you, then us reading the opposite of what we hoped for in the patch notes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
As long as the discourse remains productive towards the practical end of making a better, more balanced game, we are more than happy to open a window for you all into the development process.
That's your job, not ours. So lets see some action. No need to list all the unfulfilled promises going back to 2010, ...
Also, if you'd care to tell us what exactly is technically out of the question, we could provide better suggestions. I mean productive goes both ways.
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Posts: 120
# 19
09-14-2011, 03:09 PM
One thing I'm curious about, though not entirely sure if is possible given the games systems (but hope so, and hope this route is taken) is an immunity buff. If a player is hit by SS then once its removed or clears on its own a secondary 'buff' is activated that grants the players ship (and pets and NPCs who are hit too) a temporary immunity. 20-40 seconds. This will discourage Scramble Sensor Spam. A similar concept could be taken for other powers, like Hargh'pengs, Anti-Matter spread, Jam Sensors, etc.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
09-14-2011, 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havam
Also, if you'd care to tell us what exactly is technically out of the question, we could provide better suggestions. I mean productive goes both ways.
Where it comes up, I am perfectly happy to. But as for listing it out, that'd be like acting a biologist exactly what is and isn't possible biologically speaking...we're talking a hugely complicated system with massive amounts of interlocking pieces.

Even internally, we each have specialties even within the own internal editors - I know a great deal about the way critters work, the reward system, the assignment editors and a moderate amount about the powers editor, while Geko is the undisputed master of the powers editor, though even he doesn't known absolutely everything it can do.

It's also not always boolean; for example, the direct way to fix the B'rel's cloaking issues are just insanely time consuming albeit technically possible, but time is one thing we don't have very much of. (That being said, Geko recently got some tech that will allow us to finally make this work better. Coming soon.)

Tiny things can have huge consequences, from what files are inherited from what other files, to which were using which templates, to someone leaving out, oh, say a max targets limit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor_Forthright View Post
One thing I'm curious about, though not entirely sure if is possible given the games systems (but hope so, and hope this route is taken) is an immunity buff. If a player is hit by SS then once its removed or clears on its own a secondary 'buff' is activated that grants the players ship (and pets and NPCs who are hit too) a temporary immunity. 20-40 seconds. This will discourage Scramble Sensor Spam. A similar concept could be taken for other powers, like Hargh'pengs, Anti-Matter spread, Jam Sensors, etc.
We've done this in some places, and I am personally a big fan of this technique, although there are some complications to getting it do precisely what one expects it to do. I would like to see more of this, however, as we can work it into the existing system.
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