Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
09-14-2011, 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
Thanks for the feedback.

Be aware that I do read most of the relevant posts in this forum and many others (yes, Sivar, yours too ). Some of the ideas raised are practical, some simply won't work given technical constraints or practical complications. (For example, a Confuse effect is a Confuse effect - without new tech we can't actually have it pick and choose what abilities it works for or who it works for.)

That being said, there are still a number of potential options on the table, and we are considering many of them.

One thing we are immediately putting into the pipeline is capping the maximum number of targets to 5. Note that this is not the final word on the power, it's merely something that we can safely, quickly and incontrovertibly put into the pipeline.

(Note, too, that the max target does not distinguish between player and non-player targets such as torpedoes, fighters, etc. - this is a technical limitation, but it does mean that max targets 5 doesn't necessarily mean "5 player ships".)

Development and balancing is way, way more complicated than most players realize. Technical limitations, production realities, unintended consequences, and limited resources and time make it a continual challenge.

While there is a vast amount of information and constraints and ramifications that players are not privy to, the reality is that players have a practical, on the ground body of knowledge that when tapped can provide very useful data points and ideas for the development process. As long as the discourse remains productive towards the practical end of making a better, more balanced game, we are more than happy to open a window for you all into the development process.
Only thing I'd like to add I'm not sure if anyone else suggested this because usually when you are scrambled some people don't both removing it and just reselect their target and keep on trucking. It would be cool as a suggestion to make all the possible targets random targets sort of like the Rhode Island console does. I just thought it would be funny if a fed did it to me on one of my Klingons if it made me see everyone as the Enterprise A, B, C, D, and E rofl
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
09-14-2011, 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
Where it comes up, I am perfectly happy to.
Oh I misunderstood, I thought you meant this in response to the OP, wasn't asking for a private DEV tutor, although that might come in handy one day


Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
We've done this in some places, and I am personally a big fan of this technique, although there are some complications to getting it do precisely what one expects it to do. I would like to see more of this, however, as we can work it into the existing system.
Screw complications, this post just made my day. Make it so...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
09-14-2011, 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
(Note, too, that the max target does not distinguish between player and non-player targets such as torpedoes, fighters, etc. - this is a technical limitation, but it does mean that max targets 5 doesn't necessarily mean "5 player ships".)
Sooo... you do realize that you're then going to make scramble all but useless against a spam heavy team, right? Now don't get me wrong, a part of me really likes to see scramble being nerfed into the ground but another part of me realizes the shortfalls of this approach...
  • Encouraging spam isn't a good thing
  • Scramble helps to counter out of control healing

That 2nd point may be less valid thanks to the torp cool-down change, but I fear that the future looks like 4-5 science ships spamming GW/CPB/PSW/TachB with 2 copies of spread, 3 torpedoes up front, and two chroniton mines in the back. You need to do something to make this kind of combination less potent, and there needs to be more incentive to take escorts.

Also, thanks for posting. But if you really want to get some good feedback don't forget to drop by OPVP, or you could even vent up with us. We'll also gladly take you around and PvP with you a bit. (by we I mean the PvP community, not any specific fleet)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
09-14-2011, 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
Thanks for the feedback.

Be aware that I do read most of the relevant posts in this forum and many others (yes, Sivar, yours too ). Some of the ideas raised are practical, some simply won't work given technical constraints or practical complications. (For example, a Confuse effect is a Confuse effect - without new tech we can't actually have it pick and choose what abilities it works for or who it works for.)

That being said, there are still a number of potential options on the table, and we are considering many of them.

One thing we are immediately putting into the pipeline is capping the maximum number of targets to 5. Note that this is not the final word on the power, it's merely something that we can safely, quickly and incontrovertibly put into the pipeline.

(Note, too, that the max target does not distinguish between player and non-player targets such as torpedoes, fighters, etc. - this is a technical limitation, but it does mean that max targets 5 doesn't necessarily mean "5 player ships".)

Development and balancing is way, way more complicated than most players realize. Technical limitations, production realities, unintended consequences, and limited resources and time make it a continual challenge.

While there is a vast amount of information and constraints and ramifications that players are not privy to, the reality is that players have a practical, on the ground body of knowledge that when tapped can provide very useful data points and ideas for the development process. As long as the discourse remains productive towards the practical end of making a better, more balanced game, we are more than happy to open a window for you all into the development process.
Thanks for letting us know your reading. Its appreciated.

Ya I understand turning everyone enemy 1) might not be all that great and 2) might be a major hurdle on the dev end... would really just like to still be able to use my Battle cloak when my team decides they are going to be scramble heads.

As HB was saying the max targets... and I never really considered it could lead to people spamming as a SS protection... which might not be a great option either. Perhaps a reduction to the size of the AOE field could be another option ?

I know I mentioned making the effect Fragil like Jam sensors.... honestly alone that might even go along way on its own to reduce the annoying factor of scramble.

Anyway, good to know you are considering options to fix the skill... I really don't mean to be gloomy and I really don't want to understate it either... this skill is driving people away from our game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
09-14-2011, 04:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
As HB was saying the max targets... and I never really considered it could lead to people spamming as a SS protection... which might not be a great option either. Perhaps a reduction to the size of the AOE field could be another option ?
That sounds like a good and likely easy to code alternative.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
09-14-2011, 04:54 PM
Something long the lines of.. 2-3km spread?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
09-14-2011, 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
Thanks for the feedback.

Be aware that I do read most of the relevant posts in this forum and many others (yes, Sivar, yours too ). Some of the ideas raised are practical, some simply won't work given technical constraints or practical complications. (For example, a Confuse effect is a Confuse effect - without new tech we can't actually have it pick and choose what abilities it works for or who it works for.)

That being said, there are still a number of potential options on the table, and we are considering many of them.

One thing we are immediately putting into the pipeline is capping the maximum number of targets to 5. Note that this is not the final word on the power, it's merely something that we can safely, quickly and incontrovertibly put into the pipeline.

(Note, too, that the max target does not distinguish between player and non-player targets such as torpedoes, fighters, etc. - this is a technical limitation, but it does mean that max targets 5 doesn't necessarily mean "5 player ships".)

Development and balancing is way, way more complicated than most players realize. Technical limitations, production realities, unintended consequences, and limited resources and time make it a continual challenge.

While there is a vast amount of information and constraints and ramifications that players are not privy to, the reality is that players have a practical, on the ground body of knowledge that when tapped can provide very useful data points and ideas for the development process. As long as the discourse remains productive towards the practical end of making a better, more balanced game, we are more than happy to open a window for you all into the development process.
gold star best dev post ever. reading this inspired confidence in me, you guys are alright. i take back all the bqd things i said about your moms. carry on
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
09-14-2011, 07:31 PM
Thanks Heretic. You have no idea how it feels to know that you are looking at the balance issues. I myself do realize what a task it can be as not everything can really be calculated easily. So many different build combinations and all. Maybe someone can write a boinc program for that. I got some computing power to donate to a sto balanceing predictions project of some sort. Thats for sure
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
09-14-2011, 08:36 PM
Yup, ive made a somewhat similiar if not about the same suggestion in the Sivar's PvP thread. Oh well, anything is better then what we have now.

And YES, science powers all need to be affected depending on skilling and Auxiliary power. However currently most of the science (both captain and bridge officer powers) are only limitedly affected by these aspects in terms of effectiveness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmoeJoe
gold star best dev post ever. reading this inspired confidence in me, you guys are alright. i take back all the bqd things i said about your moms. carry on
Ahhh the <3
I luv u 2 mini :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
09-14-2011, 09:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
[...]
One thing we are immediately putting into the pipeline is capping the maximum number of targets to 5. Note that this is not the final word on the power, it's merely something that we can safely, quickly and incontrovertibly put into the pipeline.
[...]
While it is a good quick fix it won't be the final solution. But while we are at it maybe it is possible to link skill level, skill points spent and number of targets. Let's say SS1 5-8 targets, SS2 8-11 targets, SS3 11-14 targets. High Aux (125) might allow 1-2 more targets.


Anyway I hope you know all this limits (eg the new consoles are limited too) will only make spam more important. I also hope you are working on a way to distinguish between NPC and PC for such powers. So SS1 might only affect 5 PCs but an unlimited number/a lot of NPCs. Spam should never be the easiest solution.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:24 AM.