Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
09-15-2011, 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raketh
Or actually make putting skillpoints into Tact Team Leader mean something. If you skill it all the way to 9 it increases the duration - 5 seconds at 0, 10 at 9. That way tact captains (who usually have spare skillpoints) can maximise its efficiency, but others who need skillpoints elsewhere will either have to live with diminished effects, or re-jiggle their skillpoints around.

Something along those lines anyway. :p
Agreed, but it needs to be into 3 trees like the other teams, not just tac team leader. Engy team is stupidly expensive to fully spec into with the last box costing 4500 skill points alone to get to 9. Science team is less expensive, and tac team cost is nothing at all? How in the world does that make any sense? The weird thing is that in IMO, those three are backwards as far as order of importance. Tac team is the most useful, followed by science, then engy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
09-15-2011, 11:55 AM
nerf tac team. That way captain data can drop it and my boarding parties will have free reign on his vessels
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
09-15-2011, 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlaffargue
captain data can drop it and my boarding parties will have free reign on his vessels
That sounds hot
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
09-15-2011, 12:58 PM
I still feel like 10 seconds is too long. Five seconds, like the other teams, feels better. It would be nice if effectiveness of the shield distribution aspect (which is probably not going anywhere) was tied to skill point investment. The boost to tactical systems should be higher or changed to increase something like accuracy, critical severity, or critical chance in relation to skill point investment.

Tactical team is still great for removing powerful debuffs like FoMM (which is all but worthless given the 2/3rds up time of the current version) and for completely negating abilities like Boarding Parties. It wouldn't be completely worthless if the time was reduced, or the redistribution was less perfect than it currently is, but it should still come with some kind of significant tactical boost.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
09-15-2011, 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlaffargue
nerf tac team. That way captain data can drop it and my boarding parties will have free reign on his vessels
CSV or better yet TS to your pesky little BPs. :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
09-15-2011, 02:31 PM
Your cannons and torpedos are NAUGHT to me!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
I really don't understand the what in the name of q is the issue with tactical team. The only people that can't get around are the people that need to learn how to pvp better. That's just a learning curve as with any ability that does anything. Other abilities need real figuring, and tactical team is no game changer in a skilled 5 v 5. Why can't we just leave it alone?

Edit: I do see the need to find a reason to increase ranks, but that's no different from any other "team" ability beit sci, eng or tac.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
09-17-2011, 12:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroegler
I really don't understand the what in the name of q is the issue with tactical team. The only people that can't get around are the people that need to learn how to pvp better. That's just a learning curve as with any ability that does anything. Other abilities need real figuring, and tactical team is no game changer in a skilled 5 v 5. Why can't we just leave it alone?

Edit: I do see the need to find a reason to increase ranks, but that's no different from any other "team" ability beit sci, eng or tac.
The problem is that Eng and Sci Team both have quantifiable returns on increasing the Rank of the skill taken. For Sci Team, you get a bigger shield burst-heal; for Eng Team, you get a substantially bigger hull heal. For all three team-types, you get a slight improvement to the +X skills provided by the Teams, but, here's the huge difference: for Tactical Team, you do not need to put any skillpoints into the skill to get the fully-effective shield distribution (the main benefit of the skill), for the full, 10 seconds (which should, instead, be the same 5-second duration of the other Team powers), while taking higher ranks of the skill gains no appreciable (or, frankly, discernable) increase in the efficacy of the shield distribution. Coupled with the 100% greater up-time of Tactical Team, it is a no-brainer, no-skill power, that every ship can benefit from running. On the other hand, Science Team and Engineering Team require skillpoint investment to boost their effectiveness (shield/hull burst heals), and only benefit from their debuff-cleansing component for 50% of the time, compared to Tactical Team.

Tactical Team is a huge game-changer in a skilled 5v5 (if employed properly), as it maximizes the effects of already-too-powerful healing, and provides 67% immunity (due to uptime) to APB, APD, BP, FoMM (all staple skills for countering the power of healing, but largely nullified, now, due to Tactical Team's power and prevalence).

-BRJ
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
09-17-2011, 02:01 AM
I guess I don't see it as a game changer because everyone is using it and still ships explode and eventually the better team wins, most of the time. Certain sci abilities on the other hand are different. You can have an extremely skilled team without sci that will get smeared by mediocre players running all science captains in science heavy ships (intrepid in particular) and an escort. The more sub-nuc your team has (not heals) the more you will win. Not to mention a couple of shield stripping blue shirts will have a good laugh at your feeble attempt to launch a tactical team as their buddy in the scort' autofires you to death if he chooses to. To me they need to get that fixed asap before they go on to the finer points of other lacking abilities that aren't getting banned from tournaments etc.

I do want to chime in on my opinion of the other team abilities as well. I really feel to build your ship with a high ranking team ability over a high ranking heal that also adds damage resistance is maybe irresponsible. I see sci and eng teams as great debuff cleansers and added heals for already resisted team mates but for much more than that. I do expect a lot of disagreement on this subject though because I know of so many peoples heal setups revolve around rank III of these abilities and I never understood it. Always seems to be more useful things that can be slotted in those boff positions.

Before long I worry we'll be seeing 5 sci caps vs 5 sci caps in the ques. This week alone I've already seen a few premade/pugmade groups running the super 4 sci and one escort build absolutely smoking people. People don't generally run this kind of setup normally simply out of courtesy to the opponent and that's the honest truth. It should not be this way. Especially for pug's sake a team should be able to randomly group up into any combination of ships and have a chance to beat their opponent if they are good enough at what they are currently flying.

There are much bigger issues at hand in my humble opinion. I hope no one takes me the wrong way. I do like to see us work constructively on ideas for our game but I really don't see this ability being any where near the top of the list of abilities that needs tweaking.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
09-17-2011, 08:33 AM
The shield distribution thing is a horrible idea. However if the lack of actual numbers is the issue, maybe Tact team should give you a % of both hull and shields of Eng Team and Sci team in addition to clearing tactical debuffs.

Something like 1k shields to each facing and 2k hull.


Regardless, the shield distribution thing needs to go.
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