Lt. Commander
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# 1 Data doesn't make sense
09-15-2011, 05:02 PM
Hi. Just watching STTNG from the start again. And it's still up there for me with TOS. But I don't why - it's never occurred to me before. Data's character doesn't make sense. He is Lt Cdr out of starfleet for (14 I think) a number of years - yet naive as hell. We are supposed to believe some of the issues he comes across are totally new? O don't think that positronoc matrix is all it's made out to be and there's a bit to much auto empty recycling bin going on.

Ow while I'm at does it get on anyone else's nerves hen canon is talked about. Canon doesn't exist - even gene made it up ( by all accounts) as he went along - arguing once cannon was whatever he said it was. Theres load early TOS contradicts itself later with ( and plenty for STTNG too). So jj's film ' not being cannon' - who cares cannon doesn't exist.

What do you guys think?
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# 2
09-15-2011, 05:14 PM
I think it's understandable. He wasn't "raised" by anyone. He was switched on as an adult, and was immediately asked to do computational tasks and learn advanced information. His best source of information was not life experience. When people grow up, we tend to think more actively about things that come up more often in our lives. With Data, though, he could only guess at how relevant information would be. He could read about a rare type of monkey and house cats and not know which one he would be more likely to encounter.

It is a big change watching him develop through the series. Each season sees him act a little more normal. I enjoyed that. They tried to copy that with 7 of 9, but meh....
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# 3
09-15-2011, 10:29 PM
We know from Dr. Soong himself (in the episode where he summons Data to visit him on his deathbed), that Data did have a number of months of "childhood" living with Soong, but Data apparently lost those memories when the Crystalline Entity attacked. Thus, when Starfleet found him, he was very much a blank slate.

What the OP was getting at though, is that it seems odd that the years spent in Starfleet Academy and as an officer before being assigned to the Enterprise did not teach him more than they did. One questions how he made the promotion to Lt. Cmdr and third-in-command of a large starship while remaining so naive--one would think that his previous commander would have considered him "not ready for command".

Speaking of which, we never do hear about Data's former Captains and crewmates. It would have made for a nice episode for a previous commander of his to show up and expound upon how much progress Data had made since the old days.
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# 4
09-15-2011, 10:39 PM
because of him being so naive is pobably he didnt get promoted to commader cuz he couldnt pass that test that troi took to become commander. and also i would like to know why didnt worf never get past lieutenant during the whole show? not counting the movies.:p
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# 5
09-15-2011, 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChibiClari View Post
We know from Dr. Soong himself (in the episode where he summons Data to visit him on his deathbed), that Data did have a number of months of "childhood" living with Soong, but Data apparently lost those memories when the Crystalline Entity attacked. Thus, when Starfleet found him, he was very much a blank slate.

What the OP was getting at though, is that it seems odd that the years spent in Starfleet Academy and as an officer before being assigned to the Enterprise did not teach him more than they did. One questions how he made the promotion to Lt. Cmdr and third-in-command of a large starship while remaining so naive--one would think that his previous commander would have considered him "not ready for command".

Speaking of which, we never do hear about Data's former Captains and crewmates. It would have made for a nice episode for a previous commander of his to show up and expound upon how much progress Data had made since the old days.
This is aces. dont have to write it myself, thanks

edit. speaking of tests, does it really say data spent years in star fleet? I wonder if he just took a placement test...

The second part...makes me wonder if the OP knows what canon means (by the way cannon is the weapon)....someone tells a story, makes a world adds in history ect all this makes up a background. This world thats made can be written down and is canon. Canon simply put refers to a collection of works that is true...not Im not going to wiki and copy paste...So yes, it is what ever he wants it to be, he made star trek its his story.. the JJ abrams is however an alternate time line and therefore not a part of this universe...it is its own canon story.
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# 6
09-16-2011, 12:18 AM
Yeah originally I always thought that data was a honoury title of Lt Cdr (bestowed straight of the bar due to his abilities). Which would have made sense - but it definatly refers in early episodes to a number of years between time at the academy and draft to enterprise ( that and all his medals - according to crusher in most toys - some of starfleets most heroic-

Loved the idea about his old crew that would have been good!

Ref canon to early poster. I understand what you mean - but by that logic are you saying only Gene's stuff is canon? Cause that dismisses loads of trek ( parts of STTNG, voyager, DSN, enterprise, as well as a number of films).

I suppose that's my poin really no I don't think I do know what 'canon' is. Don't get me wrong I love trek ( my partner and I were sad enough to save up for years to go to Vegas just to do the star trek rides - we live in UK).

I mean it's great that we have a rich history of trek and in the main writers try to follow what has come before. But a 'canon' I don't see it maybe we love the show that much we are kidding ourselves - star trek writers and producers (including and especially gene) change things at a whim - because ultimately it is just a tv show. It is us ( the fans) who 'create' canon and them debate it. For the actual people who do create trek, they couldn't give two monkeys.

And I don't mean this rudely to an earlier Post and I probably shouldn't have brought up JJ vision - aaa it's to controversial. But watch early TOS - some of the stuff in that is nonsense in later TOS. For starters starfleet isn't even called starfleet by kirk.
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# 7
09-16-2011, 12:25 AM
I don't think Data came across as all that naive in TNG, even from the start. There were awkward situations where he didn't know certain slang terms and such, but he seemed perfectly capable. He was one of the most capable officers on the ship.

I think you might be exaggerating how "naive" Data was. In addition his naivety was due to not being human and not being fully able to comprehend their actions due to lacking emotions. It was more a blind spot for him than a sign of lack of knowledge. It simply was something he couldn't really understand, and couldn't easily learn to compensate for.

I can see an argument that some of the misunderstandings and awkward moments with Data may have been a little bit exaggerated, but I think we can excuse that on account of creative license. We can even come up with some theories like in his previous assignments he was not as readily accepted by the crew, and didn't have an opportunity to socialize as much. There were a thousand people on the Enterprise-D, and maybe at his previous assignments there simply weren't as many people to interact with. The truth is we really don't know.
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# 8
09-16-2011, 12:49 AM
my only answer is JJ's universe is cannon, it's an alternate timeline branch created by the travelling back in time by Nero and his good ship Nautilus... In all serriousness though, to argue that the new timeline is not cannon is like arguing the mirror universe doesn't exist...
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# 9
09-16-2011, 01:00 AM
i agree...

Data makes not much sense...

especially in the movies it's beyond stupid what they did with him.

first they gave him the Emotion Chip in ST7, it got FUSED to his System.
In ST8 he can just click it OFF ? ...ok i missed an episode i guess?
In ST9 he "did not even take it with him" and acts with that Boy as if he never had the Emotion Chip ever "androids have no fun" and lines like that *facepalm* did somebody do a memory wipe?

And don't even get me started on that "B4" droid they pulled out of nothing for STX.
I mean, come on a FOURTH Soong Type Android? (Data, Lore, Data's MOTHER...).
Why didn't they at least make Shinzon steal Lore instead of finding another one.


but heck i love Data because of the Actor, Brent Spiner just sold it every time, no matter how stupid the script was.
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# 10
09-16-2011, 06:14 AM
Yeah What is it with insurrection? God that film is awful. Really (and I'm talking as a TNG fan). Apart from first contact they really messed up the films.

Generations probably looked better on paper
Insurrection is just terrible on so many levels - I've tried to give it chance time and again but it's terrible
Nemesis I can just about handle but there are so many problems to it.

All in all a real shame regarding TNG outings for films
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